Classic vintage lenses are getting way too expensive!

Paul Howell · Oct 21, 2018

True, prices are really good, and still really good for a some of gear. 50mms, 135s, and 28s 2.8 and 3.5 are still a bargain, while top of the line lens, like Canon FD L glass and fast lens held up better than the consumer grade stuff. In addition to mirrorless camera uses, folks who are snapping up all machinal bodies like Pentax K1000 , Nikormats and Minolta 101 and 102 are now looking for lens, on top that that there is a limited supply, fewer are the market. 10 years ago I bought a lot of Miranda glass, Ebay, Shopgoodwill.com. I found almost every EE lens except the 180 2.8, haven't seen a prime on Shopgoodwill in a year or so.

John51 · Oct 21, 2018

Quids are worth a lot less now so you have to spend more of them.

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 21, 2018

I just bought a MC 85mm f/2 Jupiter-9 with 16 aperture leaves made in 1988, and a MC Helios 44-3 58mm f/2 with 13 aperture leaves made in 1986. These are for use on an APS-C camera, so equivalent FL on 135 format are 88mm and 130mm. These will be my portrait lenses. The versions I bought weren't cheap but not pricey either, for what they can do. Very economical older models of the same lenses are available at very low prices and are almost as good... some like the older ones better.

Theo Sulphate · Oct 21, 2018

ic-racer said:
...
I recently picked up one of these. It works very well on a film camera.
...

It works well only on a Nikon F4 or later Nikon that can control the aperture electronically.

ted_smith · Oct 21, 2018

I've been posting here for ten years, and am usually greeted with kindness and helpfulness. To be fair I'm amazed at all the "grow up" and "get real" type comments. It's a discussion forum, and I was triggering discussion amongst analogue enthusiasts about my surprise at how the prices from just say 4 or 5 years ago, where really good vintage lenses were selling for £70 or £80, are now selling for £200 or £300. It's a discussion point, I thought, and a reflection on the industry, I thought, showing perhaps it's growth again, but also the frustrations for us who like to buy occasionally at having to pay more than we did not so long ago. I'm not 12. I'm quite aware of how much these things were in the 70's, 80's and 90's. My BMW was £33K in 2000; I bought it for £3K 6 years ago; it's no worth about £500. Could I have bought it for £33K in 2000? No. Would I be surprised if it suddenly was worth £2K, or £3K. Yes. If someone posted on a car forum about their surprise that BMW's from 2000 were now selling for £3K instead of £500 would I put "grow up man...they were £33K back in the day". No.

I don't post here to get people on their high horses about how hard they had it. We've all spent on gear over the years. I spent over £3K of it only to see it stolen a few years ago, and I'm sorry if the prospect of laying all that out again, having done so already, is difficult and I am hunting for quality vintage bargains and surprised not to find them as easily as I could. I came here to talk about that. Not be spoken to like an idiot.

Yeah, I bought a Hasselblad for £2000 because I'd never have been able to buy one in the 1980's when they were £20K. Yeah, I bought a Nikon F5 for £300 because I could not afford to buy one of those in the 1990's when they were £3K either. I suspect many of us are the same.

For those who were more constructive, I'm pleased to report that I managed to buy a Nikon 135mm 2.8 with an AI conversion already applied for £175, which will now accompany my sole 50mm 1.8. I have been watching the 135mm and the 105mm for a while, and it looks in mint condition, still with case etc. I am eagerly awaiting its arrival.

Toyo · Oct 21, 2018

Best value in Nikon cameras at present I have found is in the Nikkormat/Nikomat range - particularly the FTN, and the F4 variants
Although prices here have also been going up recently
T

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 21, 2018

Supply versus demand often drives prices on the used equipment market.
Olympus is a marque with a respected reputation, as is Nikon and Canon and prices will bounce up and down with market forces. Same thing with antique cars, bikes ... even caravans!

abruzzi · Oct 22, 2018

ted_smith said:
For those who were more constructive, I'm pleased to report that I managed to buy a Nikon 135mm 2.8 with an AI conversion already applied for £175, which will now accompany my sole 50mm 1.8. I have been watching the 135mm and the 105mm for a while, and it looks in mint condition, still with case etc. I am eagerly awaiting its arrival.

My "new" NIKKOR-QC 135/2.8 is delivered tomorrow. Seems UK prices are higher than here in the US, since I was able to get mine a bit cheaper (also with the AI conversion.) Nonetheless, it gets good reviews, and I love the feel of the older pre-AI lenses. I hope you like it.

GLS · Oct 25, 2018

abruzzi said:
Seems UK prices are higher than here in the US

Yes, UK prices for used gear are consistently higher than most places, and if you can't buy from the EU then you will pay 20% + duty on anything ordered from further abroad. Even the EU loophole will soon close if Brexit ever actually happens. I have ordered from Japan several times before though, as paying the extra scratch was worth it to get equipment in near mint condition compared to the beat up junk that was (sporadically) on offer here.

Compound that with the general trend of old film-era lenses and gear becoming popular again due to a) the rise of mirrorless cameras, and b) hoards of hipsters taking up film photography, then you have a problem.

Arklatexian · Nov 6, 2018

gorbas said:
Grow up man! Even with this "inflated" recent prices, you are paying just fraction of the original price. Just take any photography magazine from '80s or '90s and compare prices. It took me years to build my Nikon kit in early '80 @ those original prices. Today everything is bargain in analog photography

If you figure the original retail prices (without inflation being factored in) many of the film cameras are being sold today for about the same as they sold for new, or more. This is true of Hasselblad 500cm and lenses, Leica M3, M2, and lenses. That is the way things are. The OP's Hasselblad and lenses are worth real money. I'll bet he would not be willing to take "junk" prices for his equipment and neither is anyone else. The only equipment that I hear of being "given away" today are enlargers that cost too much to ship, thanks to UPS and FedEx. Times have and are changing. If anyone is waiting for older photographers to develop untreatable eye problems, You must "outlive" them first and that gets harder to do each year........Regards!

Helios 1984 · Nov 6, 2018

I've noticed that the Russian lenses cost more than what they used to. Helios used to cost like 10-15$, now they're selling between 30-70$ : /

guangong · Nov 7, 2018

Ted, you did initiate a discussion. I suppose what may appear to be a backlash stems from the impression that you were not just observing, but complaining. Probably in a face to face discussion your intentions would have received a different response. And of course you may have observed that some readers can be rather persnickety.

MattKing · Nov 7, 2018

Ted:
You probably wouldn't have got the same sort of response if you had added the words "for my limited budget" to the end of your thread title!

Sirius Glass · Nov 7, 2018

Ted, the lenses are still a gift at today's prices to the quality of those lenses.

mshchem · Nov 7, 2018

ted_smith said:
I've been posting here for ten years, and am usually greeted with kindness and helpfulness. To be fair I'm amazed at all the "grow up" and "get real" type comments. It's a discussion forum, and I was triggering discussion amongst analogue enthusiasts about my surprise at how the prices from just say 4 or 5 years ago, where really good vintage lenses were selling for £70 or £80, are now selling for £200 or £300. It's a discussion point, I thought, and a reflection on the industry, I thought, showing perhaps it's growth again, but also the frustrations for us who like to buy occasionally at having to pay more than we did not so long ago. I'm not 12. I'm quite aware of how much these things were in the 70's, 80's and 90's. My BMW was £33K in 2000; I bought it for £3K 6 years ago; it's no worth about £500. Could I have bought it for £33K in 2000? No. Would I be surprised if it suddenly was worth £2K, or £3K. Yes. If someone posted on a car forum about their surprise that BMW's from 2000 were now selling for £3K instead of £500 would I put "grow up man...they were £33K back in the day". No.

I don't post here to get people on their high horses about how hard they had it. We've all spent on gear over the years. I spent over £3K of it only to see it stolen a few years ago, and I'm sorry if the prospect of laying all that out again, having done so already, is difficult and I am hunting for quality vintage bargains and surprised not to find them as easily as I could. I came here to talk about that. Not be spoken to like an idiot.

Yeah, I bought a Hasselblad for £2000 because I'd never have been able to buy one in the 1980's when they were £20K. Yeah, I bought a Nikon F5 for £300 because I could not afford to buy one of those in the 1990's when they were £3K either. I suspect many of us are the same.

For those who were more constructive, I'm pleased to report that I managed to buy a Nikon 135mm 2.8 with an AI conversion already applied for £175, which will now accompany my sole 50mm 1.8. I have been watching the 135mm and the 105mm for a while, and it looks in mint condition, still with case etc. I am eagerly awaiting its arrival.

This equipment is much more abundant in the US . I'm not sure how VAT works on used equipment, but in US no tax or import duties due on things bought on Ebay . No tax on buying over the Internet out of state. This will eventually change, state taxes in my state, Iowa, is 6%. I just sold (to a good friend ) a Nikon 135 2,8 Ai lens for 40 dollars, I'm sure I could have gotten 100 bucks if I wanted to fool around. A lot of the nice older stuff has been used up, fungus, broken etc.
I sold a 1980s vintage 80-200 Ai to a used shop for 25 dollars. Nice examples are getting more scarce.

TonyB65 · Nov 8, 2018

Ted, being in the UK I share your pain on lens prices, when people tell me "film is dead" I often point them to the prices of plenty of film gear, definitely not as cheap as it was, and some of it is not readily available in the UK either. Pentax 67 gear is not cheap or easily found as I have discovered. As has been pointed out, M42 mount Takumars are reasonably priced and there are some excellent gems to be had. I have an OM1 and OM2n and they are still great cameras for shooting 35mm, and as long as you don't go for the F2 lenses then prices are still not too bad. The 135mm F2.8 is pretty nice lens with very nice bokeh if you want a longer fastish prime. I have the OM 100mm F2.8 you mentioned, I got mine for £50 because the rubber focusing grip had come off it, I use it without no problem and the rest of the lens is absolutely fine, so sometimes you can grab a bargain for a small but insignificant flaw.

ic-racer · Nov 8, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
It works well only on a Nikon F4 or later Nikon that can control the aperture electronically.

If you notice, the 28/1.8 is an autofocus lens and it works on every Autofocus Nikon except the F-601.

E. von Hoegh · Nov 8, 2018

Helios 1984 said:
I've noticed that the Russian lenses cost more than what they used to. Helios used to cost like 10-15$, now they're selling between 30-70$ : /

I recently paid $89 for a Helios 103, considering the performance, I stole it. Considering the rear lens cap, a 1969 Kiev 4 with an accurate meter, accurate shutter...
To the o.p.; pre AI Nikkors go for a song. You could equip yourself with a Nikkormat and a basic set of lenses by selling your F5 body.
The Pentax route is also good, I have three screwmount bodies (H1a, Spotmatic F, Spotmatic 1000, )basic lens kit, total cash outlay less than fifty US dollars.

Sirius Glass · Nov 9, 2018

TonyB65 said:
Ted, being in the UK I share your pain on lens prices, when people tell me "film is dead" I often point them to the prices of plenty of film gear, definitely not as cheap as it was, and some of it is not readily available in the UK either. Pentax 67 gear is not cheap or easily found as I have discovered. As has been pointed out, M42 mount Takumars are reasonably priced and there are some excellent gems to be had. I have an OM1 and OM2n and they are still great cameras for shooting 35mm, and as long as you don't go for the F2 lenses then prices are still not too bad. The 135mm F2.8 is pretty nice lens with very nice bokeh if you want a longer fastish prime. I have the OM 100mm F2.8 you mentioned, I got mine for £50 because the rubber focusing grip had come off it, I use it without no problem and the rest of the lens is absolutely fine, so sometimes you can grab a bargain for a small but insignificant flaw.

Take a trip to the US. Order lenses from KEH. Receive the lenses. Use them in the US and then return home. if asked, telling customs that you had them for years and that people in the UK had just given them to you over the course of time.

darkroommike · Nov 10, 2018

gorbas said:
Grow up man! Even with this "inflated" recent prices, you are paying just fraction of the original price. Just take any photography magazine from '80s or '90s and compare prices. It took me years to build my Nikon kit in early '80 @ those original prices. Today everything is bargain in analog photography

Plus one on that and today's money is worth less, too. One of the things driving prices on AI Nikkor glass is that Canon users are buying it to use of the Canon 5D for shooting video, manual apertures and focus put much less strain on the Canon batteries.

Ian Grant · Nov 10, 2018

I guess my most "Classic" 35mm lens is a really nice Carl Zeiss Jena 58mm f2 Biotar which I bought from a very reputable dealer here in the UK for £35 including a Praktina FX body. While I bought the lens at a Camera Fair it was on his website as well and priced to sell, the lens on it's own is worth far more than I paid and even the Russian 58mm f2 Helios copies fetch more in good condition. This lens was to have been re-manufactured along with the Biotar f1.5 75mm at around £1000 for the 58mm, however after a successful Kickstarter campaign the company behind it went bust recently.

Good classic lenses can be found at reasonable prices here in the UK, I bought a 1913 120mm f6.8 Dagor (Goerz, Berlin) in a Compound shutter in mint condition for £30 two years ago on Ebay. I bought 4 Jupiter 8 lenses for £5 each recently (same seller as the Biotar) for my Russian/FSU cameras.

It's about knowing where to look . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Ian

Ian Grant · Nov 10, 2018

I'll add more to where to look. Here in the UK there's two types of second hand dealer/seller whether retail, online store, or Ebay, it'll be similar elsewhere.

First are the sharks high prices, often multiple listings of the same or similar item on Ebay usually at way above the prices of reputable dealers who give a 3-6 month guarantee, Here in the UK there's a handful of Ebay sellers often with thousands of items listed and they dominate listings and skew the perceived values of cameras, lenses etc. I have named some of these sellers here in the past they tend to inflate MF and LF prices the most.

Then there's the good honest dealers who know the true values, aren't greedy, give a good service, guarantees, want a quick turn over of items.

Then there's the private sales who can't work out the true values because of the bog disparity between the sharks and the good retailers/sellers so ask too much and rarely get a sale.

Ian

markjwyatt · Nov 10, 2018

When I was around 14 (and that was decades ago), I bought my dad's Zeiss Icarex 35S TM with a Carl Zeiss 50mm f1.8 Ultron for $100. It was my first 35mm SLR (and until recently my only, I moved into medium format). The shutter gave out in the 1980s, but I kept it and the lens. I had the lens CLA'd recently, and picked up a few Spotmatics, a couple Practikas and a Fujica ST 605n- all for a song. I have also picked up a few inexpensive lenses to add to my collection, but the Ultron is the central piece. I also have adapters for my Fuji XT-2 for these lenses. I ended up with a few additional lenses and cameras of different types and am adapting various lenses to cameras where possible (for instance I have two deckel mount Schenider Kreuznach lenses, and I go an M42 adapter and they fit on my Practikas, oddly they do not work on the Spotmatics, and I have not tried the Fujica yet; I also picked up a nice Kodak Retina IV pretty inexpensively, plus I have a deckel adapter for my Fuji XT-2). When I was 14 I could not afford this stuff, and now I am constantly tempted to pick something up on ebay. When I was 14 I thought my camera was a clunky dinosaur, but now realize that what my dad kept saying, "but it has a really good lens", was in fact very true. I do notice that the lenses I would really like to have are not cheap for sure. At this point I want to slow acquisitions, use what I have, and maybe add a few prime pieces in the future.

GLS · Nov 10, 2018

Ian Grant said:
Here in the UK there's a handful of Ebay sellers often with thousands of items listed and they dominate listings and skew the perceived values of cameras, lenses etc. I have named some of these sellers here in the past they tend to inflate MF and LF prices the most.

*cough* The Classic Camera Company *cough*

Ian Grant · Nov 11, 2018

GLS said:
*cough* The Classic Camera Company *cough*

Not one of the companies I was thinking of

They have a 55mm f2 SMC Takumar for £74.82 described as for the "ES, ESII, Spotmatic F, S1a, SPII, SV, SP, SP 1000, H3V, Honeywell, SP 500...etc. and on all other M42 screw mount film SLRs as: Praktica, Petri, Zenit, Fujica, Chinon, Yashica... "

Then they have a 55mm f1.8 Super Takumar for £99.82 also described as for "ES, ESII, Spotmatic F, S1a, SPII, SV, SP, SP 1000, H3V, Honeywell, SP 500...etc. and on all other M42 screw mount film SLRs as: Praktica, Petri, Zenit, Fujica, Chinon, Yashica... " The only problem is this lens doesn't have the mechanism for full aperture metering with the ESII and Spotmatic F so that's incorrectly listed.

In the context of this thread as a whole I bought a near mint Pentax SV with meter and 55mm f1.8 SMC Takumar for £20 two months ago at the Camera Fair I go to. So the same lens as The Classic Camera Company are selling for £74.82 but with a camera as well But then I see dealers buying there and at the Collectors Fair & Flea Market I go to.

Ian

Classic vintage lenses are getting way too expensive!

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