Classic TLR's and Street Photography

Retire and Old Standard, forget my C3 / C330f and buy a Rolleiflex 3.5F Xenotar?

I spent a few days in London last weekend, shooting with a 'new' 1934 Rolleiflex Old Standard 621. At just £40 it was simply the best buy, a really talking point of late, but by first outing was far from a success - the heavily vignetted viewfinder and reflected stray light causes me immense difficulty focusing outdoors. It multiplied my reaction times to a slow, confused grind. Still I managed two test films which I have yet to develop.

After visiting Mr Cad, a 'real' London Camera store, the question of modifying the Standard came up. Should I overcome this obstacle with modifications? A new mirror and a focus screen change? Then came the answer I didn't want to hear - 'Just use it like it is, its a classic, use it'. The historic shop owner had finalised my thoughts, whilst inspecting backwards through the viewing lens. I nodded in reluctant agreement, after all a good workman never blames his tools. I couldn't help to feel a little empowered as he handed it back, surrounded by intriguing cabinets full of antiquities and I fell into a dream, imagining myself 'cleaning up in Soho', intuitively wielding my piece of photographic history.

Sadly, it was very much the opposite. That afternoon I watched as shot after shot slipped through my fingers, to the point where I didn't even bother to shoot. I also pondered that perhaps our modern times of modern paranoia have killed street photography. Maybe frame grabs from a rolling 4k movie was the answer?

Yet as I walked smiling through the bustling Saturday afternoon, admiring glances and conversation came from the Standard delicately worn round my neck. I was able to take a street portrait or two with my 'proper camera', portraits without suspicion, portraits that were offered. This old camera gave me immediate access, it brought out the best in people and in me, a classic camera.

My Mamiya C3 and C330f are just too heavy for an 8hour wander, the Standard on the other hand is so light I barely notice it and makes me playful - no camera bag, just slung round my neck whilst enjoying London. So I am considering another Rolleiflex, a 3.5F Xenotar, with a working meter. I am sure to relish the brighter viewfinder, faster working, meter, no mods, kept as standard.

What are your opinions on all this?

(picture below shows my C330f, Rollei Old Standard and a friends Rolleiflex, I don't know the model)

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I too have experienced positive reactions to a TLR. If you don't have to take food off the table to pay for an "up to date" camera, go for it. "He who dies with the most toys wins!"

I often use Rolleiflex and other TLR cameras on the street. They are conversation starters, people seem to like being photographed by them, and surprisingly, they can even be stealthy. And the lower than eye level perspective can be quite effective.

My most-used "street camera":

Deadcameras special Rolleiflex TLR strap, on Rolleiflex 3.5F white face by Mike Novak, on Flickr

Yes. Walking around with my Yashica Mat 124G, sometimes the pictures take themselves.

DavidClapp said:

Retire and Old Standard, forget my C3 / C330f and buy a Rolleiflex 3.5F Xenotar?
(...)
What are your opinions on all this?

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If you're using a C330F and don't like the weight, then you have two alternatives:

a. A mamiya C220S; it is MUCH lighter and has an excellent viewfinder, probably one of the best on a TLR. And you retain all the versatility of the Mamiya TLR series.

b. A Rolleicord, which is also a very light tool and easy to use.

A rolleiflex 3.5F is a very fine machine, built to a higher quality class of fit and finish than the Mamiya C-series, but on this specific situation it won't bring too many advantages.

A workman maybe shouldn't blame his tools, but the tools have to be good. With the vignetting and flare, it seems the Old Standard is hampering you.

Perhaps set the older camera aside for slower more deliberate photography - nature, landscapes, buildings, etc.

A newer Rolleiflex may be what you need - if you can try one for a while. I have the 3.5F and 2.8D -- I prefer not having the complexity of a metered F should it need repair (plus the F has other clever complexities like the moving DOF vanes).

I took street pictures with Lubytel-2, Yashica AS-II and two 124G, Cords II, IV. Yashica Mat was most sufficient. Rolleiflex would be more pleasant, but I quit TLRs before getting it.

Yashicaflex AS II.

Rolleicord II.

124G.

DWThomas said:

"He who dies with the most toys wins!"

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He who dies with the most toys...

is dead.

- Leigh

Change the focus screen of theOld Standard and may get a lens hood to control the flare.

Other good machines are Rolleiflex 3.5B, Rolleicord Va(stock screen is very good) and Holga 120.

The screen and the mirror o the old 'Flex are a problem. Once you clear that up, you'll have the flare from an uncoated lens. Those lenses can do great things, and it's up to you if you want to go with the flare, or if you want to limit your lighting condition to play to the strengths of the lens. A post-WWII coated lens will not have the same limitations/character.

Any TLR is going to be slower on the street than most 35mm-type cameras. It's simply the nature of the beasts. It's your call if you want to practice enough with a TLR to get what you want, and practice is what is required.

I have a decent amount of work with TLRs- http://dandaniel.zenfolio.com/ Basically if it's B&W and square it was done with a TLR. Rolleiflex 2.8C Xenotar mainly, also Minolta Autocord and Yashica-Mat. A non-meter Rolleiflex is my preference; almost always you'll be pre-set on the street, and the light changes little so you learn quickly the three or four settings you need for different conditions and dont get bogged down metering each shot.

Having only owned a Minolta tlr in 1960 and later a Rollei 2.8f, I can't speak about the other tlr cameras. The only cameras that I would never consider are the bulky mamiyas (never mind the weight). The advantage of a tlr or folder such as the super ikonta b is that most citizens on the street don't take them seriously whereas a 35mm camera looks enough like digital capture cameras that they take notice, making candid photography easier with tlr.
As for missing shots...like fishing, more are missed than caught. Sometimes I am so engrossed in the scene that I forget about my camera.
One problem Rollei had was that the cameras were built to well, almost indestructible, so that the only reason to buy another was possibly to upgrade.

I'm a fan of TLRs my teo Mamiya's a C3 & C33 were stolen in the early 1980's and I replaced them with 645s. However about 8 or 9 years ago I acquired a YAshicmat 124 and love using it. I had a mint Rolleiflex 3.5E2 (Xenotar) I'd been given sat in a cpboard but with an erratic shutter only firing prperly every other exposure due to lack of use.

I had the Yashica and the Rolleiflex serviced and both work well, since then I've acquired a Rolleiflex Automat with an Opton Tessar and a Microcord II witha Ross Xpres. There's slight differences in lens quality but that doesn't bother me the Xenotar and Xpres are the sharpest followed by the Tessar but the Yashinon is still a good lens.

A few years ago I bought a Chinese focus screen intending to fit it to the Yashicamat which I leave and use in Turkey, in the end I put it in the Microcord and it's significantly brighter. I echo Dan's remarks about coated lenses, they do make a difference, I use both coated and uncoated with LF and prefer a coated lens, there's far less differece between Coated and un-coated though.

David, your friends Rolleiflex is a Standard New Model K4 made 1939-41 so it's highly unlikely to have a coated taking lens, all the later models Automat onwards have the two thumb wheels to control aperture and shutter speed.

Factor in that any older TLR may well need a CLA, that was £50 for my Yashicamat which was just the shutter, B&W in Bristol did find the focus mechanism had a slight misalignment and could repair it but that would cost the same possibly more than just buying another. The Rolleiflex 3.5E2 was £100 but needed a full service as all the original lubricants ahad dried out. So try and find a camera that's been recently serviced.

Ian

I use my Mamiya C330F all the time to shoot street, people in general seem to be happier and less threatened photographed with as camera that you are looking down into than one pointed at them. My Mamiya I don't find "too heavy for an eight hour wander", and I have children who are probably older than you David

Rolleiflexes are great. They work well on the street. The only thing I don't like with automatic models (i.e. most of them!) is that the automatic film loading system can easily be whacked out of alignment.Out of the 6 rolls I shot with my 2.8E during a recent weekend in Amsterdam, 2 had a misaligned start. To the point that I am considering replacing it by a T or a GX/FX. I will send it to the tech anyway. But I just loooooove the pics which come out of that machine. Can't part with it at least for now. My other cameras are great too, just... different. I cannot really describe it. Might just be my imagination, who knows.



Another incredible street camera (pricy, though) is the SWC. The greatest point'n'shoot ever. Autofocus is the fastest on the planet and 100% accurate each time! The only drawback is that due to the extreme wide angle you need to be very close to your subject. I've never really done it, but I even expect that doing quick snapshots à la Mark Cohen is doable. (Thinking about it, I found myself an occupation for the weekend! ha ha)

Ian Grant said:

...David, your friends Rolleiflex is a Standard New Model K4 made 1939-41 so it's highly unlikely to have a coated taking lens, all the later models Automat onwards have the two thumb wheels to control aperture and shutter speed...

Ian

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The unidentified camera in the OP is a Rolleiflex T.

elcabezagrande said:

The unidentified camera in the OP is a Rolleiflex T.

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Thanks I never think of the T, as it has flash synch it has a coated Tessar.

Ian

baachitraka said:

Change the focus screen of theOld Standard and may get a lens hood to control the flare.

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Ok I have a lens hood which I should use.. regarding the focusing screen - what would you recommend and from whom?

Ian Grant said:

I had the Yashica and the Rolleiflex serviced and both work well, since then I've acquired a Rolleiflex Automat with an Opton Tessar and a Microcord II witha Ross Xpres. There's slight differences in lens quality but that doesn't bother me the Xenotar and Xpres are the sharpest followed by the Tessar but the Yashinon is still a good lens.
Ian

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Where did you get them serviced Ian?

etn said:

Another incredible street camera (pricy, though) is the SWC. The greatest point'n'shoot ever. Autofocus is the fastest on the planet and 100% accurate each time! The only drawback is that due to the extreme wide angle you need to be very close to your subject. I've never really done it, but I even expect that doing quick snapshots à la Mark Cohen is doable. (Thinking about it, I found myself an occupation for the weekend! ha ha)

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Are you talking about a Hasselblad SWC? I am confused

DavidClapp said:

Where did you get them serviced Ian?

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B on W (Black on White) in Bristol, unlike US companies you get shutters that work at there marked speed as they do a total rebuild.

Ian

benjiboy said:

I use my Mamiya C330F all the time to shoot street, people in general seem to be happier and less threatened photographed with as camera that you are looking down into than one pointed at them. My Mamiya I don't find "too heavy for an eight hour wander", and I have children who are probably older than you David

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Haha, I need to man up then. I just find that the less conscious I am of carrying the the camera, like the Old Standard experience, the better overall. I'll give it a try over the weekend and see how I feel about it.

DavidClapp said:

Are you talking about a Hasselblad SWC? I am confused

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Yes I was. A bit out of topic but a great complement to a Rollie!

Edit: ...and what I ironically name "autofocus" is obviously the great depth of field of that lens set at hyperfocal distance.

DavidClapp said:

Ok I have a lens hood which I should use.. regarding the focusing screen - what would you recommend and from whom?

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I advocate to keep the original dark ground glass screen since it is the sharpest screen you can get. A nice hat may be helpful to control the flare on focusing screen.

- I bought a screen from a Chinese seller in e-bay that have a split screen, which is absolute garbage. Big NO from me.

- Bright screen from Rick Oleson.
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-175.html
I have no idea but it can be good.

- Maxwell. Very bright and it may not be sharp and expensive. Best in the market for brightness.
https://m.facebook.com/Maxwell-Precision-Optics-200647716643807/

I have Rolleicord IIa and Rolleicord Va. The screen in Va is the best balance between sharpness and the brightness.

Long ago, I had a Oleson's screen on a Rolleiflex Automat: bright no doubt but very difficult to focus as the Fresnel was way too apparent, a pure crap.