classic pan 200 ISO like 1 ISO

hello from France,
I use classic pan 200 in 120 rollfilm and sheet with rodinal.
I have no black, just grey, I have to expose in 1 ISO to have black (in fact dark grey) ! Is it ortho-film or I'm only with that things ?

Thanks and sorry for my english.

It's not my favorite film, but I've tried it, and it seems to function normally. As far as anyone can tell, it's the same film as Bergger 200 or Fortepan 200.

If you're exposing it in different cameras (as I guess you would be if you are shooting both sheet film and rollfilm, though, of course it is possible you could be using a roll back on a 4x5" camera), with different lenses, that would rule out a camera problem.

Is your meter otherwise reliable?

Have you tested this batch of Rodinal with other films?

You're not using very dilute Rodinal with a Jobo processor are you? If you are, you may not be using enough solution to develop the area of film you want to develop.

Are you sure you're not exposing through the back of the film?

thanks all,
ok here is more details :
- I have try rollfilm and sheet with differents cameras, no problem with others films.
- Exposure meter is ok, gossen and minolta
- Process use is rodinal 1+50 and 1+25 for rollfilm and 1+25 for sheet no jobo processor, sheet one by one sheet manually in open cuve. Also I have try with D76, same result. Time choise with digitaltruth

I have buy this films at fotoimpex in Berlin with Foma's 120 who are good in exposure but with lot of scratch.

temps variable said:

hello from France,
I use classic pan 200 in 120 rollfilm and sheet with rodinal.
I have no black, just grey, I have to expose in 1 ISO to have black (in fact dark grey) ! Is it ortho-film or I'm only with that things ?

Thanks and sorry for my english.

Click to expand...

I have recently tested Fortepan 200 with BTZS and the .62 gamma was at 64 iso in D76 at 1+1 and the blacks and whites and all tones in between were beautiful. The smoothness and sharpness were also very acceptable.

The rodinal may be oxidising before the film gets full density. I've had to mix my rodinal in a sodium sulfite solution, 20g to a liter, when I use my unicolor drum for my 8x10 film. An open tray may be the same.

Could this be from the bad batch of fomapan that there were threads about a few months ago?

Oh, the same thing - you can't believe, but today I was testing this film in sheet format. Forte 200 in fact is a very soft-gradation film, that means that only specular highlights come out black on it... good for portraits and high-contrast subjects. Definitely not the best choice in sharpness and contrast terms, and too sensitive to red. The printing density should be okay even if the negative looks grey - if it's exposed as ISO 100, not 200. The colour of negative is related to silver grain size and shape, so it's not important if it doesn't affect printing. I developed Forte 200 for 13 minutes in Rodinal 1+50, open tray, and it's okay - though the negative is on a thin side. I shoot also a sheet of it at ISO 200 - in this case the negative has full details, but it's really too thin - the chromium intensifier gave me about the same density as of my ISO 100 rated sheet, + one stop roughly. Try to contact-print your negatives shoot at ISO 100 - they should print well on a normal grade paper. But a better contrast can be achieved, if needed, rating the film at 25-50 ISO - the film will tolerate it without blocking highlights.

thanks again,
happy to read your replys cause in France there's no many users of this film and I understand it because for me it's very strange, like old negative. I think I'll use it for very specific photos.

celluloidpropaganda said:

Could this be from the bad batch of fomapan that there were threads about a few months ago?

Click to expand...

Yes I thinks, sometine I have a number in the foot of the sheet.

eumenius said:

they should print well on a normal grade paper. But a better contrast can be achieved, if needed, rating the film at 25-50 ISO - the film will tolerate it without blocking highlights.

Click to expand...

I use scanner and the grain go up very fast.

Hello, can you tell us what the development time was?

Curt

hello Curt, 10 minutes.

here is a result and it's one of the best cause I have change curve with photoshop... but it's always grey...

Classic Pan 200 or 400 film is sensitized for indoor exposures, giving excellent results by artificial light.
At daylight exposures, as well as with flash, speed is somewhat less (1 diaphragm value ie.1 stop).
Digitaltruth times are mainly for digital imaging/ scanners, add 20-30% dev time for photography.

All the best.

Yes, Leonidas is quite right - both Fortepan 200 and 400 films have a so-called superpanchromatic sensitization, i. e. extended sensitivity to red light. So they give excellent results with quartz halogen continuous light sources (hot lights, T=3200K), used in studio. Their speed for daylight is about 1 stop smaller due to its higher colour temperature. The effect of superpanchro sensitivity can be compared to that of the orange or red filter - the cold tones become darker, and the warm tones (including skin tone) are lighter. It's convenient in portraiture sometimes, because this effect hides face redness/veins/blemishes, the skin looks more tender and fresh. But there's an immediate drawback - the lips become too light too, giving sometimes an anaemic look to the model. The only reasonable cure for it is a dark coloured lipstick, and that's not always convenient. I successfully cured the superpanchro effect on Fortepan 400 with a light-blue "portrait" filter, devised with the advent of Panchromatic films in 1950s especially to give "ortho" look to portraits - all excessive red light is cut by this filter, but at the cost of film speed. So, on my opinion, Forte 200 and 400 are nice old-style low-contrast portrait films with flattering "light skin" effect. A test shooting of, say, three sheets exposed as ISO100 and developed for 12-14-16 minutes in either Agfa Rodinal 1+50 or R09 1+40 will give you the answer about the right developing time for your needs.

PS. I am constantly using Fortepan 100 in 120 size, I develop it for 10 minutes in Agfa Rodinal 1+50 or for 13 minutes in Fomadon R09 1+60. The results are excellent, and this film doesn't have any pronounced enhanced rendering of the reds - the negatives are quite agreeable in terms of density and contrast even if exposed as ISO25 or ISO400, that's the exposure latitude of this film. Forte doesn't make it in sheet formats for some reason, though

thanks all for yours posts.
I understand well now. Perhaps will try to work more on it in help with your informations, it's can be interesting. And so, no need to have a APO with this film, the result should be the same like a simple xenar ?
Another question, do you use it only because the price is low ?

I am trying it because I would like to buy my film from a source that is reliable and besides the films I would have used are now dead. Panatomic-x, Agfa 25, etc..
If the price keeps it in stock and fresh then so much the better.

Curt