Clarovid II issues

Captain Mainwaring · Jul 31, 2021

Hi, I got me a Rodenstock Clarovid II last week, and the test roll made me scratch my head. That wasn't the only thing to get scratched, though. Nearly every frame out of eight (with the exception of two) has multiple scratches. The scratches themselves are rather conspicuous on the scan; the other photograph features those metal bits that hold the rolls in place. They have sharp edges, so they'd be the obvious culprits, only I cannot for the life of me fathom just where they'd get in contact with the surface of the film rather than the backing paper.

Another issue is the horizontal stripe at the very top of the picture. I have one on every single frame. Croppable, but irritating.

Lastly, all the focus-to-infinity photographs look somewhat softish. I wonder whether that's a feature of the lens or the result of the assembly being in need of calibration.

I love the look and the feel and the fact that it has a rangefinder, which is a rare thing to find on a camera from the 30s, but it looks like I'm in for some work on this one. Any suggestions on how to solve any of the problems outlined above would be highly appreciated. So far, I'm musing on whether I should just tear out those metal bits and see what happens next…

AgX · Jul 31, 2021

Could you tell us the film you used?

Captain Mainwaring · Jul 31, 2021

AgX said:
Could you tell us the film you used?

Sure—Ilford PanF Plus.

AgX · Jul 31, 2021

Then I was on a wrong track...

Well, back to your camera. Have you checked the rollers on smoothness and friction? Keep in mind there is less force by the film to make them turn, than you will apply by your thumb in testing them on friction. (They look fine though concerning their surface.)

Might the film roll over the vertical black edges oft the film gate instead of only over the rollers?

Have you stretched the film excessively after taking it out before sealing it again?

Captain Mainwaring · Jul 31, 2021

AgX said:
I then I was on a wrong track...

Well, back to your camera. Have you checked the rollers on smoothness and friction? Keep in mind there is less force by the film to make them turn, than you will apply by your thumb in testing them on friction. (They look fine though concerning their surface.)

Might the film roll over the vertical black edges oft the film gate instead of only over the rollers?

Have you stretched the film excessively after taking it out before sealing it again?

The rollers feel smooth, they were the first thing I checked. Those roll holders look longer than in any of the other folders I have (Bessa I, Nettar 515, Super Ikonta 530, and Rheinmetall Weltax), and they have really sharp edges. I should have checked the backing paper before discarding it, I guess.

As for the film gate edges—that area would have been completely unexposed in the scenario you’re describing, wouldn’t it? Here it’s just a band that’s slightly darker than the rest of the picture.

And, no, I did not treat this roll any differently from the others in terms of applied pressure or anything else.

Kino · Jul 31, 2021

The line on the bottom of the frame will concern the bottom of your aperture for, as you probably know, the image is formed upside down and backwards on the film plane. Check the aperture to see if there is any bare metal for light to bounce off of and form the line. Bare metal or enameled metal with a lot of shine will do it.. Bare metal can be painted with a tiny brush and flat black paint and shiny surfaces can be flocked with self adhesive black felt found in craft stores.

If the bellows folds become reflective, flat black paint will also reduce light bounce. Look through the camera with the aperture and shutter wide open to see if you can see any surfaces that might cause internal reflections.

As AgX suggests (I think) the multiple parallel scratches can be caused by "cinching" the film; grabbing the end of the leader and pulling it tight to reduced a loosely wound roll. If your camera tends to take up looser than you like, it is better to carry a few light tight canisters and unload the film in a darkish room, straight into the canister to await the darkroom, rather than pull the end and chance scratching the emulsion.

Captain Mainwaring · Jul 31, 2021

Kino said:
The line on the bottom of the frame will concern the bottom of your aperture for, as you probably know, the image is formed upside down and backwards on the film plane. Check the aperture to see if there is any bare metal for light to bounce off of and form the line. Bare metal or enameled metal with a lot of shine will do it.. Bare metal can be painted with a tiny brush and flat black paint and shiny surfaces can be flocked with self adhesive black felt found in craft stores.

If the bellows folds become reflective, flat black paint will also reduce light bounce. Look through the camera with the aperture and shutter wide open to see if you can see any surfaces that might cause internal reflections.

As AgX suggests (I think) the multiple parallel scratches can be caused by "cinching" the film; grabbing the end of the leader and pulling it tight to reduced a loosely wound roll. If your camera tends to take up looser than you like, it is better to carry a few light tight canisters and unload the film in a darkish room, straight into the canister to await the darkroom, rather than pull the end and chance scratching the emulsion.

Thanks, I'll take a look at possible reflective surfaces. I didn't cinch the film to the best of my knowledge. Hell, I don't remember ever having scratches on 120 film before. Happened with crappy 135 cameras twice, ages ago (never trust a Zenit).

AgX · Jul 31, 2021

Well, I got a Zenith at hand and got no idea how it could scratch the film.

lobitar · Jul 31, 2021

First thing I usually do with any camera of this type is to check focus with a ground glass over the frame opening. You can make your own ground glass with scotch tape. Second - I oil the roller bearings with a tiny drop of oil and check easy turning. Thirdly - I check the rollers are in line with the film guides. From the look of it (although it may be an optical mirage) it seems the uppermost roller is way too low, so as make the film friction over the frame opening. Hope this may help?

Captain Mainwaring · Jul 31, 2021

AgX said:
Well, I got a Zenith at hand and got no idea how it could scratch the film.

My first one (confiscated from Dad) worked marvellously, I'll give it that (I still prefer the Spottie and the Olympus FTL as M42 bodies, though). The one I confiscated from my father-in-law, on the other hand, left scratches on every film. In random places. Some films got scratched more; others less. I haven't got it at hand anymore, anyway. But trust me on that one: it _did_ scratch film. The other one was a Smena 8M.

Captain Mainwaring · Jul 31, 2021

lobitar said:
First thing I usually do with any camera of this type is to check focus with a ground glass over the frame opening. You can make your own ground glass with scotch tape. Second - I oil the roller bearings with a tiny drop of oil and check easy turning. Thirdly - I check the rollers are in line with the film guides. From the look of it (although it may be an optical mirage) it seems the uppermost roller is way too low, so as make the film friction over the frame opening. Hope this may help?

Thanks, I'll look into it, and a little lubrication certainly won't hurt (that's what they said)

Kino · Jul 31, 2021

The rear element of your camera appears to have some sort of haze or even a small spot of fungus. If you feel comfortable removing it, you could clean it in an equal mix of household ammonia and hydrogen peroxide. This often clears up haze and fungus. Clean the element with normal lens cleaning solution after using the mixture...

shutterfinger · Jul 31, 2021

Post pictures of the negatives.
That line at the top of the photo is from the scanner you used to scan the negatives with. It may need internal cleaning of the bed glass and or the mirrors and lens to correct. Clean the bed glass and calibration area first.
The transport rollers at each edge of the image gate appear to be equally spaced on the image frame. They should turn with the weight of a 1mm x 1mm down feather applied to them and have no flat spots.
The tension spring on the supply side should have smooth edges along the width of the film roll, be totally straight, and just touch the backing paper of a fresh roll of film. It appears to be in more on the bottom half than on the top.

Captain Mainwaring · Jul 31, 2021

Kino said:
The rear element of your camera appears to have some sort of haze or even a small spot of fungus. If you feel comfortable removing it, you could clean it in an equal mix of household ammonia and hydrogen peroxide. This often clears up haze and fungus. Clean the element with normal lens cleaning solution after using the mixture...

Uh, sorry, that's not the case, although I see where you're coming from. That's the way the light hits it. The lens is clean as a whistle.

In the meantime, the dark band mystery has been solved: a microscopic horizontal tear (or, rather, a frayed piece) in the bellows, really close to the place where they're glued to the back of the film gate. Nothing a little acrylic paint won't fix; it's so tiny I didn't notice it until someone suggested it to me. The focus issue is an adjustment issue; I'll have to ask a specialist. The scratches still puzzle me, though. Need more testing.

Captain Mainwaring · Jul 31, 2021

shutterfinger said:
Post pictures of the negatives.
That line at the top of the photo is from the scanner you used to scan the negatives with. It may need internal cleaning of the bed glass and or the mirrors and lens to correct. Clean the bed glass and calibration area first.
The transport rollers at each edge of the image gate appear to be equally spaced on the image frame. They should turn with the weight of a 1mm x 1mm down feather applied to them and have no flat spots.
The tension spring on the supply side should have smooth edges along the width of the film roll, be totally straight, and just touch the backing paper of a fresh roll of film. It appears to be in more on the bottom half than on the top.

Not a scanner issue. Film from other cameras scans perfectly well. As I said earlier, a microtear in the bellows was causing it.

Kino · Jul 31, 2021

Captain Mainwaring said:
Uh, sorry, that's not the case, although I see where you're coming from. That's the way the light hits it. The lens is clean as a whistle.

In the meantime, the dark band mystery has been solved: a microscopic horizontal tear (or, rather, a frayed piece) in the bellows, really close to the place where they're glued to the back of the film gate. Nothing a little acrylic paint won't fix; it's so tiny I didn't notice it until someone suggested it to me. The focus issue is an adjustment issue; I'll have to ask a specialist. The scratches still puzzle me, though. Need more testing.

Good on the clarity of the lens! Better to not have that problem in addition...

AgX · Jul 31, 2021

shutterfinger said:
The rollers should turn with the weight of a 1mm x 1mm down feather applied to them.

What a great way of defining torque.

shutterfinger · Jul 31, 2021

Captain Mainwaring said:
In the meantime, the dark band mystery has been solved: a microscopic horizontal tear (or, rather, a frayed piece) in the bellows, really close to the place where they're glued to the back of the film gate.

Yep, that will do it also.

AgX said:
What a great way of defining torque.

and they should turn silky smooth with 0 side to side play and no more than .026 mm up/down of the image frame movement.

I have a Grafex Graphic RFH with pin rollers that scratched film. The lead side pin roller had just detectable roughness/side play, removing it cured the problem.

Use a digital caliper example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3924964506...c64DSHSVWG2TW3ei6KRj|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524
to measure the distance between the arrows and roller play.

I do not know if the link will work in your area. I could not find your country listed on ebay or amazon.

AgX · Aug 1, 2021

shutterfinger said:
Use a digital caliper to measure the distance between the arrows and roller play.
View attachment 281765

But then you imply that the spring could affect the emulsion through the paper, through the base, still producing these rather narrow stripes.

shutterfinger · Aug 1, 2021

Pressure marks from too much pressure on the backing paper result in black marks on the film similar to cupping the film too much when loading on a developing reel.
There may be more than one cause of the marks/scratches.

Captain Mainwaring · Aug 1, 2021

Thanks for all the answers! Well, I'll have the focus adjusted, and then try it out with another roll of film and see how it works out.

henryvk · Aug 2, 2021

Infinity focus is not too hard to check if you have some hair and an SLR with a 50mm lens and ideally split-prism focusing:

Tape a strand of hair across the folding camera's gate so that it's flat across the film plane. You need to turn focus to infinity and keep the shutter open (T or Bulb mode with a wire release). Now you focus your SLR at infinity and use it to look down the folder's lens opening at the hair across the film plane. If the hair is perfectly in focus with both cameras set to infinity you have a correctly collimated lens.

This method can also be used to check whether your folder's lens is parallel to the film plane. Just tape a hair across the far corners of the film gate, right at the edge, and repeat the process. If both hairs are in focus the lens is parallel.

If focus is off, the way to correct it is to very. carefuly. bend the lens standard until the hair is in focus. If that isn't enough your lens may need shimming, but chances are if you are having focus trouble, the lens standard is just slightly bent. I have a Clarovid I and have adjusted the focus with the method I have described and bending the standard out slightly.

In order to check focus at 1m you do need some ground glass and a lupe.

Captain Mainwaring · Aug 2, 2021

henryvk said:
Infinity focus is not too hard to check if you have some hair and an SLR with a 50mm lens and ideally split-prism focusing:

Tape a strand of hair across the folding camera's gate so that it's flat across the film plane. You need to turn focus to infinity and keep the shutter open (T or Bulb mode with a wire release). Now you focus your SLR at infinity and use it to look down the folder's lens opening at the hair across the film plane. If the hair is perfectly in focus with both cameras set to infinity you have a correctly collimated lens.

This method can also be used to check whether your folder's lens is parallel to the film plane. Just tape a hair across the far corners of the film gate, right at the edge, and repeat the process. If both hairs are in focus the lens is parallel.

If focus is off, the way to correct it is to very. carefuly. bend the lens standard until the hair is in focus. If that isn't enough your lens may need shimming, but chances are if you are having focus trouble, the lens standard is just slightly bent. I have a Clarovid I and have adjusted the focus with the method I have described and bending the standard out slightly.

In order to check focus at 1m you do need some ground glass and a lupe.

Thanks for the detailed reply. That sounds like great advice, and I'm sure the procedure you've described would work. Given my abysmal fine motor skills, however, I won't even try to do it myself. I've broken way more things that I've tried to fix in my life than I actually fixed, unless we're talking computers, but those are easy Thanks for taking the time, anyway! How are you enjoying your Clarovid? The first one has a rangefinder, too, right?

henryvk · Aug 3, 2021

Captain Mainwaring said:
Thanks for the detailed reply. That sounds like great advice, and I'm sure the procedure you've described would work. Given my abysmal fine motor skills, however, I won't even try to do it myself. I've broken way more things that I've tried to fix in my life than I actually fixed, unless we're talking computers, but those are easy Thanks for taking the time, anyway! How are you enjoying your Clarovid? The first one has a rangefinder, too, right?

I see. It's important to know the limits of one's abilities I probably wouldn't fix a modern computer.

Afaik it's the same body but with a different rangefinder mechanism with a separate rangefinder window. It's a really nice camera and I enjoy shooting it a lot! I think yours will give you just as much joy once it's properly adjusted. Great that you are keeping this nearly 100 year old machine going!

Clarovid II issues

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