CLA? - What to expect.

Bruce Osgood · Feb 10, 2013

BrianShaw said:
p.s. Regarding Bruce's shutter and its speeds... if he indeed just had it serviced it should be returned as "not properly serviced".

And if one has requirements to be within 10% on all speeds then that should be an agreement prior to the CLA so it can be priced accordingly.

Brian, no it was not the same lens. A different lens and a different time.

Sirius Glass · Feb 10, 2013

Ian Grant said:
Brian, I'm sure it's not a Nationalistic thing, of course there's repairers in the US on a par with those in Europe, however there is a tendency on these Forums to recommend repair shops that don't seem to do full CLA's and return shutters with comparison charts of actual speed against marked speed where actual speeds are way outside the +/- 30%.

Ian

The term you are looking for is caveat emptor.

E. von Hoegh · Feb 11, 2013

BrianShaw said:
I'm talking about the error spec on the specification sheet or industry standard, not the resulting effect. In other words, the ANSI/ISO spec for light meter calibration is probably not anything close to 30% error. I don't ahve the standard at hand but I'm remembering from memory. But, Yes, of course the effect of error anywhere in the exposure chain affects the exposure on film.

Well, It's my opinion that the error spec. is in error. As far as getting the shutter back with a slip of paper giving the real vs. marked speeds, how would you feel if I returned your Hamilton 992 with an error chart? (You can get 3 decent 992s for the price of one new Copal 3)

I think it should be a matter of prior agreement as to whether or not the slip of paper is acceptable. The speeds should at very least be within whatever the accepted industry spec. is, regardless of whether or not I think that is a valid spec..

BrianShaw · Feb 11, 2013

E. von Hoegh said:
The speeds should at very least be within whatever the accepted industry spec. is, regardless of whether or not I think that is a valid spec..

Yes, that is my point. I certainly don't want to get into an arguement about whether the spec is right, wrong, or both. You know what they say about engineers and @holes!

and regarding 992s... yes, I would expect that to be very exact. My 15j Waltham... another story. Different engineering; different spec.

Old-N-Feeble · Feb 11, 2013

Okay, that settles it. I'm having all my lenses adapted to old Ilex shutters that are so-o-o-o simple to service and adjust. Ya' gotta love the nice round apertures too.

E. von Hoegh · Feb 11, 2013

Old-N-Feeble said:
Okay, that settles it. I'm having all my lenses adapted to old Ilex shutters that are so-o-o-o simple to service and adjust. Ya' gotta love the nice round apertures too.

Compounds are my personal favorite. Far and away more accurate than Ilexes; round apertures, no buzzing.

Old-N-Feeble · Feb 11, 2013

Yeah, those too. Hmm... maybe it's time to buy a boat-load of Compound and Ilex shutters so when everyone wants them to adapt their modern lenses into I can make a gazillion dollars profit when their values skyrocket. Or... maybe I should invest in Grimes' and Flutot's. Or... maybe I should buy all the working electronic shutters with standard threads I can find and have modern compact remote controllers built for them. I'll be rich... filthy-stinkin' rich, I tell you!!

k_jupiter · Feb 11, 2013

Old-N-Feeble said:
Yeah, those too. Hmm... maybe it's time to buy a boat-load of Compound and Ilex shutters so when everyone wants them to adapt their modern lenses into I can make a gazillion dollars profit when their values skyrocket. Or... maybe I should invest in Grimes' and Flutot's. Or... maybe I should buy all the working electronic shutters with standard threads I can find and have modern compact remote controllers built for them. I'll be rich... filthy-stinkin' rich, I tell you!!

No... the guys who build the exotic custom controllers will be rich.

Dan Fromm · Feb 11, 2013

k_jupiter said:
No... the guys who build the exotic custom controllers will be rich.

I doubt it. Here are directions: http://www.chemie.unibas.ch/~holder/shutter/index.html

Old-N-Feeble · Feb 11, 2013

Hey Dan... 99.9 percent of those wanting a controller like that will pay good money for one so they don't have to build it. They'll pay even more if the product is "pretty".

k_jupiter · Feb 11, 2013

Dan Fromm said:
I doubt it. Here are directions: http://www.chemie.unibas.ch/~holder/shutter/index.html

That's not complicated enough. If it doesn't have at least 256 meg of memory and a full blown 68376 micro-controller in it, what good is it?

John Koehrer · Feb 13, 2013

The ANSI standard is ~30% like it or not. At 500 more like 50%. That;s 1/2 stop either way, a total of one stop.
Adjusting a LF shutter can be pretty tedious. The slow speeds are controlled by the governor itself, clean it, lube it. and by the POSITION of the governor relative to the retard lever that it engages.
High speeds can be adjusted by replacing main springs or swaging/filing sections of the speed cam. suggesting this is a simple thing doesn't suggest familiarity with the work.
Adjusting a metal plate requires a calibrated hammer & punch and filing can be one stroke +/- sorta.

E. von Hoegh · Feb 14, 2013

John Koehrer said:
The ANSI standard is ~30% like it or not. At 500 more like 50%. That;s 1/2 stop either way, a total of one stop.
Adjusting a LF shutter can be pretty tedious. The slow speeds are controlled by the governor itself, clean it, lube it. and by the POSITION of the governor relative to the retard lever that it engages.
High speeds can be adjusted by replacing main springs or swaging/filing sections of the speed cam. suggesting this is a simple thing doesn't suggest familiarity with the work.
Adjusting a metal plate requires a calibrated hammer & punch and filing can be one stroke +/- sorta.

So can wasting 8x10 transparency film at $20+ per sheet.

The first step in calibrating a shutter is to get everything clean so you can inspect each part for wear/damage, damage can sometimes be from the last one to work on it. After correcting these faults, put it together and see how it times, usually it's much better. If the shutter has been run long without proper lubrication and/or dirt in the mechanism, there will be wear in the slow speed governor and other areas. Trying to calibrate the shutter without rectifying this wear is pointless.

Once you get the slow speeds timed, check the faster speeds. By tinkering with the cams (swage if neccesary then use a medium India stone if neccesary) (don't change springs, you'll have to starrt all over again), you can get all but the highest speed very close to the marked speeds. The top speed will be slower than marked, the larger the shutter the more discrepancy.
What is very important is to get the speeds to be consistent. This requires cleanliness and proper lubrication. The above assumes you are working on a fairly recent Copal or Compur shutter, older and pneumatic shutters require slightly different approaches. You have to understand exactly what you are doing and why, otherwise you'll not get an accurate shutter.

CLA? - What to expect.

Membership Council

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency