Cirkut R.B. Cycle Graphic No.6 Film image questions.

[Socialmocracy]

I recently got a No.6 Cirkut outfit camera. I don’t have much information on the film measurements and how many photos the 72” roll would have made using the original 8”/14” convertible lens. I have a bunch of Agfa Aviphot Pan 200 I wanted to cut down and make rolls for. Cutting the film isn’t an issue as I have done so with my AL-Vista 3B. How many 360° images could one roll of 6x72” originally make? I know that the camera was used for more choose your own length kind of panoramic photography but i’m interested in 360° images. Could I put more then 72” on a roll? I have been making my AL-Vista 3B 101 Spools 42” when the original was 30” to squeeze an extra image out of the rolls. I wonder if I could do the same with the 6” spools. Does the film use a full length backing paper or is it like 220 with leaders?

I don’t have a focusing scale for the 14” lens mode I’m guessing it uses a different one but I could be wrong.

Another issue, my camera only has the focusing scale and doesn’t seem to have the corresponding gears scale information on the camera. I found images on the internet of the same camera and lens but theirs had the gears list next to the focusing scale. Would copying the list work as well?

I am sorry if this has been answered before but I have yet to find how many 360° images on a roll were possible. I don’t see anything in the cameras manual about it either.

Lastly are there still film pools out there for the number 6 in color film?

 

[Donald Qualls]

@jimgalli has posted here about Cirkut cameras -- IIRC he has at least one of the BIG ones (10" film). I seem to recall it's paper header and tail like 220, but that may be a modern accommodation for the rarity of original backing paper.

Don't neglect the challenges of developing film six inches wide. You could probably modify a Paterson or Jobo reel to do it in a regular daylight tank, but I envision some fun and games trying to load hand cut film into a reel (and with a Paterson, at least, you'd need the four-reel tank -- measured in 35 mm reel heights -- to accommodate a 6" wide roll). Then you'd still be limited to five feet of film at once, the length of a 35 mm or 120 roll.

 

[Socialmocracy]

@jimgalli has posted here about Cirkut cameras -- IIRC he has at least one of the BIG ones (10" film). I seem to recall it's paper header and tail like 220, but that may be a modern accommodation for the rarity of original backing paper.

Don't neglect the challenges of developing film six inches wide. You could probably modify a Paterson or Jobo reel to do it in a regular daylight tank, but I envision some fun and games trying to load hand cut film into a reel (and with a Paterson, at least, you'd need the four-reel tank -- measured in 35 mm reel heights -- to accommodate a 6" wide roll). Then you'd still be limited to five feet of film at once, the length of a 35 mm or 120 roll.

Thank you for responding. I saw somewhere it was leader as well just wanted to confirm.

I need to get a 4 reel tank anyways for my AL-Vista 5B. I have made spools for the AL-Vista 3B and 122 film that fit the 3 spool. I posted em on thingiverse and printables. I figured I would make one for the 6 inch. I was using a black PVC pipe as a tank in the past. I have to turn the lights off when changing the liquid but it works.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Gears are specific to the actual measured focal length of the lens. There is a program that will calculate them, but you need to measure the exact focal length of the lens first. If there are no nail holes where the gear scale would have been on your camera, then your Cirkut back was likely added later. Fit varies, so make sure everything goes together smoothly, and you should check focus at the slit to make sure it matches the ground glass/film holder back. I assume this is a governor type Cirkut back (has a speed control)?

Do you have gears? How many, and which? It sounds like you have a rapid rectilinear type lens? Not a Turner Reich?

Even though it is not your long term interest, you will probably want to start with shorter pans to sort things out. These cameras are generally pretty fussy. It would be nice to get someone familiar with them to help check it out and get you up to speed.

Reading the manual for the 6 or 8 Outfit is a start.

If you have the paper degree band around your large gear (Cirkut tripod top), just look at the degree scale to find the approximate amount of film used for the focal length. Or run the camera dry with the clutch engaged and the largest gear for 360 degrees with the counter starting at zero and it will give you a very good idea of film pull for longer distance shots. Film pull depends on the gear used; closer, or longer focal length use a smaller gear and that will pull more film per pan.

 

[jimgalli]

Did you get a complete original kit with original lens and matching gears? If so it's quite easy to calculate film use. Put a piece of paper around the take up drum and cut it so it's an exact match for the circumference. Write the exact measurement down. Now every time the numbered gear makes a 360 revolution it pulls exactly that amount of film. The rest is math. How many teeth in the big sun gear. How many teeth in the drive hear. how many revs to make 360. Add up the numbers.

Send us pictures of what you've got. Pictures worth a 1000 words.

 

[Socialmocracy]

Gears are specific to the actual measured focal length of the lens. There is a program that will calculate them, but you need to measure the exact focal length of the lens first. If there are no nail holes where the gear scale would have been on your camera, then your Cirkut back was likely added later. Fit varies, so make sure everything goes together smoothly, and you should check focus at the slit to make sure it matches the ground glass/film holder back. I assume this is a governor type Cirkut back (has a speed control)?

Do you have gears? How many, and which? It sounds like you have a rapid rectilinear type lens? Not a Turner Reich?

Even though it is not your long term interest, you will probably want to start with shorter pans to sort things out. These cameras are generally pretty fussy. It would be nice to get someone familiar with them to help check it out and get you up to speed.

Reading the manual for the 6 or 8 Outfit is a start.

If you have the paper degree band around your large gear (Cirkut tripod top), just look at the degree scale to find the approximate amount of film used for the focal length. Or run the camera dry with the clutch engaged and the largest gear for 360 degrees with the counter starting at zero and it will give you a very good idea of film pull for longer distance shots. Film pull depends on the gear used; closer, or longer focal length use a smaller gear and that will pull more film per pan.

As I said in my first post it’s a number 6 outfit i believe that means it’s a governor style. My understanding was that there is two types the Cirkut camera and the Cirkut outfit. Kodak would label the film different saying that the film was not interchangeable between corresponding sizes. The camera comes with the original 8”/14” lens and yes I believe it’s the rapid recitallinear.

I did not receive any of the small gears or key. I modeled some gears in fusion360 and used a 8/32 x 1” bolt to mimic the threads. Mainly the 49,50 and 51 tooth gear. On an internet search I found some information on using a mod 0.8 gear cutter for a mill. Using that information I modeled printed some gears.

It looks like the holes are there on the rear where the 14” scale should be but I don’t have the plate. My question was could I just copy the photos of the same model gear scale. I understand that they are specifically designed for the lens that was sold with the camera. I found photos of the same camera same lens. My concern was if the lenses were different from batch to batch making gear tooth specific to that lens and that lens only. I know that most of these cameras were stamped with the same numbers. This would make sure that a lens and camera were made for each other. Would one camera be one tooth different in focus from another? Like the focus would be off if you used a different back from a different camera kind of thing.

From the manual for the number 6 outfit I don’t see anything about 360° lengths. I am guessing this is because it was not really made for that it was a tool for group photos and maybe some landscapes. I will try some 120 film to start and see what lengths it takes or another poster said to just mock up with some roll paper and measure one wrap. I figured that the gear size wouldn’t change the length because the take up drum size doesn’t change. My understanding was the gear changed the parallax distortion for different focuses and focal lengths. Thank you for the response.

 

[Socialmocracy]

Did you get a complete original kit with original lens and matching gears? If so it's quite easy to calculate film use. Put a piece of paper around the take up drum and cut it so it's an exact match for the circumference. Write the exact measurement down. Now every time the numbered gear makes a 360 revolution it pulls exactly that amount of film. The rest is math. How many teeth in the big sun gear. How many teeth in the drive hear. how many revs to make 360. Add up the numbers.

Send us pictures of what you've got. Pictures worth a 1000 words.

I did not get a complete kit. The original gears and key are missing. I have the base sun gear, the camera cirkut back, tripod legs, GG 5x7 back, 8”/14” lens and main camera. I modeled some gears on fusion360 based off a search. Unfortunately I’m at work on my break atm and don’t have any photos. I’ll update the tread at a later time with tooth count and photos.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Gears depend on the exact focal length of the individual lens. Focus is by the ground glass, so if that is correctly matched to Cirkut back the focus will be fine, but the wrong gear will make things come out to wide or narrow though obviously sharpeness will be affected too. My current #6 Outfit uses 52t and 51t for the original 8"/14" lens. You can just try and see how it looks. Try a short scene at 50 feet or so with you 51t; see how the width of the negative matches the ground glass. Obviously doing this near you darkroom is handiest; I take a view across my street from my porch for this purpose.

Originally there was a printed band around the rotating head that was marked in degrees that showed film pull for each rotation. They are often missing.

Even with original machined gears these can be fussy beasts. Mr. Galli has tamed a few of them.

 

[Socialmocracy]

Gears depend on the exact focal length of the individual lens. Focus is by the ground glass, so if that is correctly matched to Cirkut back the focus will be fine, but the wrong gear will make things come out to wide or narrow though obviously sharpeness will be affected too. I have had fan and governor #6 Outfits (plus 8, 10, and partial 16" Cirkuts). My current #6 Outfit uses 52t and 51t for the original 8"/14" lens. You can just try and see how it looks. Try a short scene at 50 feet or so with you 51t; see how the width of the negative matches the ground glass. Obviously doing this near you darkroom is handiest; I take a view across my street from my porch for this purpose.

Originally there was a printed band around the rotating head that was marked in degrees that showed film pull for each rotation. They are often missing.

Even with original machined gears these can be fussy beasts. Mr. Galli has tamed a few of them.

Oh this is very helpful and makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the information. I’ll give it a try.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Now for your 360 degree picture. Leaving out nitpicky details, a swing lens camera like your Al-Vista pivots the lens on its nodal point, so an 8 inch lens (about 203mm for the rest of the world) would be 8" from the film which would be held in a partial arc of a circle with an 8" radius.

The Cirkut camera usually is not pivoting on the nodal point of the lens, but simulates that with the gears pulling the right amount of film to correspond to circle of that circumference. With an 8" (203mm radius) you get a circumference of just a bit over 50 inches (about 1.25 meters), so your 360 degree picture should be about that long if focused at infinity. As you focus closer by extending you lens, it effectively becomes that much longer for this purpose, so your picture will be a bit bigger.

The Cirkut not pivoting on the lens nodal point complicates calculating gears for closer distance but works fine when sorted out.

I'm rusty at this so hope I haven't messed that up.

 

[Socialmocracy]

Now for your 360 degree picture. Leaving out nitpicky details, a swing lens camera like your Al-Vista pivots the lens on its nodal point, so an 8 inch lens (about 203mm for the rest of the world) would be 8" from the film which would be held in a partial arc of a circle with an 8" radius.

The Cirkut camera usually is not pivoting on the nodal point of the lens, but simulates that with the gears pulling the right amount of film to correspond to circle of that circumference. With an 8" (203mm radius) you get a circumference of just a bit over 50 inches (about 1.25 meters), so your 360 degree picture should be about that long if focused at infinity. As you focus closer by extending you lens, it effectively becomes that much longer for this purpose, so your picture will be a bit bigger.

The Cirkut not pivoting on the lens nodal point complicates calculating gears for closer distance but works fine when sorted out.

I'm rusty at this so hope I haven't messed that up.

So about 1 360° per roll with room for an extra 22 or less inches of panoramic photos. Well this makes things more interesting. I think if I want to make 360° I’ll plan for it. Otherwise it will be a better AL-Vista then.

 

[jimgalli]

Really, the only limit is the energy available in the spring wound motor. In theory if it was electrified and your film load was much longer than standard you could keep right on going past the 360 point. The wider the angle the bigger the gear the faster the camera moves around the axis the less film used. From memory a 170mm lens would need a 66 tooth gear which is common from the bigger 10 outfits. I havent tried that because I have no interest in wide angle full circle shots.

 

[Socialmocracy]

Really, the only limit is the energy available in the spring wound motor. In theory if it was electrified and your film load was much longer than standard you could keep right on going past the 360 point. The wider the angle the bigger the gear the faster the camera moves around the axis the less film used. From memory a 170mm lens would need a 66 tooth gear which is common from the bigger 10 outfits. I havent tried that because I have no interest in wide angle full circle shots.

Hey Jim thank you for the reply. Sorry for the late response I have been super busy this past weekend and week. I tested the motor and seems to do well making a full rotation. It was also a test of my 3D printed gears as well. Seems to work. Won’t know till I run some film through it.

 

[Socialmocracy]

Did you get a complete original kit with original lens and matching gears? If so it's quite easy to calculate film use. Put a piece of paper around the take up drum and cut it so it's an exact match for the circumference. Write the exact measurement down. Now every time the numbered gear makes a 360 revolution it pulls exactly that amount of film. The rest is math. How many teeth in the big sun gear. How many teeth in the drive hear. how many revs to make 360. Add up the numbers.

Send us pictures of what you've got. Pictures worth a 1000 words.

Ok Jim I now have some photos! It’s a link to a Flickr album.

No.6 Cirkut Outfit Camera

Explore this photo album by Senpai Skyy on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Edit: 288 or 290 tooth main gear. I might have skipped a couple of teeth. I’m guessing it’s 290.

 

[jimgalli]

Enjoyed flipping through your pictures. Hey if the printed gear works consider doing gears as a side biz for the rest of us who are too retarded to figure out 3D printing.

So then for the sake of easy math, if you have 290 sun and 58 pinion, 360 degrees is five full revolutions. So if the circumference of the take up drum is 9 inches, it'll take 45" of film to make a 360 degree image. 58 tooth is a viable gear for a 190mm lens.

For testing I use 70mm Aviphot film. In the dark you just hand center it on the supply spool and wind a bunch on emulsion side out, tape directly to the take up drum, no paper leaders, and let her rip. 70mm is plenty to see for a test. Tell you everything you want to know. Unload in the dark and slide it into a piece of 2" ABS pipe for developing. Quick and dirty but you'll get information very cheaply that way.

 

[Socialmocracy]

Enjoyed flipping through your pictures. Hey if the printed gear works consider doing gears as a side biz for the rest of us who are too retarded to figure out 3D printing.

So then for the sake of easy math, if you have 290 sun and 58 pinion, 360 degrees is five full revolutions. So if the circumference of the take up drum is 9 inches, it'll take 45" of film to make a 360 degree image. 58 tooth is a viable gear for a 190mm lens.

For testing I use 70mm Aviphot film. In the dark you just hand center it on the supply spool and wind a bunch on emulsion side out, tape directly to the take up drum, no paper leaders, and let her rip. 70mm is plenty to see for a test. Tell you everything you want to know. Unload in the dark and slide it into a piece of 2" ABS pipe for developing. Quick and dirty but you'll get information very cheaply that way.

Well I did post the 4 gears I made on Printables and thingiverse for other people to try. I unfortunately don’t have access to a #5, 8,10, or 16 to make and test the other sizes. I wish I knew how many gears should go with each camera like a range. I do believe now my “kit” was parted together from different sales over the years. The base gear has a scale for 7”/12” and I’m not positive but I believe mine is a 8”/14”. I don’t know for sure. I will have to check the FL when I get home. Thank you for the response. That sounds like I’ll probably only get one 360 image per roll and the rest will be some here and there shots. Or i custom cut for 360 ahead of time.

 

[jimgalli]

Below are calcs I did for gears for my #6 outfit for all gears beginning at 24 teeth and ending with 66 teeth. Given in inches and mm focal length. So if you have a dandy old 210 G-Claron you go down the list and find it should work at infinity with a #53 gear. Etc. Don't lock yourself into using the original lens. These beasties seem to particularly love Artar's and other simple 4 element lenses. A 203 f7.7 Kodak would want a 55 tooth gear. If you focus at 50 ish feet instead of infinity you go to the next smaller gear because your lens has rolled forward 4mm etc. etc. 360mm = a 31 gear. Test test test with the 70mm film and once it's dialed in, use up some 6" or 5" film.

Gearcalcs6

Gear calcs #6 Cirkut = EFL where gear matches perfectly multiplier=438.46

gear EFL_inches EFL_mm

24 18.27 464.03

25 00000 000

26 00000 000

27 16.24 412.48

28 15.66 397.75

29 15.12 384.03

30 14.62 371.23

31 14.14 359.254

32 13.7 348.03

33 13.28 337.48

34 12.89 327.55

35 12.52 318.2

36 12.18 309.35

37 11.85 300.99

38 11.54 293.07

39 11.24 285.56

40 10.96 278.42

41 10.69 271.63

42 10.44 265.16

43 10.2 258.99

44 9.965 253.11

45 9.74 247.48

46 9.53 242.1

47 9.32 237

48 9.13 232

49 8.95 227.3

50 8.76 222.74

51 8.6 218.37

52 8.43 214.17

53 8.273 210.13

54 8.12 206.24

55 7.97 202.48

56 7.83 198.87

57 7.7 195.38

58 7.56 192

59 7.43 188.7

60 7.3 185.6

61 7.19 182.57

62 7.07 179.62

63 6.96 177

64 6.85 174

65 6.75 171.3

66 6.64 168.7

 

[Socialmocracy]

Below are calcs I did for gears for my #6 outfit for all gears beginning at 24 teeth and ending with 66 teeth. Given in inches and mm focal length. So if you have a dandy old 210 G-Claron you go down the list and find it should work at infinity with a #53 gear. Etc. Don't lock yourself into using the original lens. These beasties seem to particularly love Artar's and other simple 4 element lenses. A 203 f7.7 Kodak would want a 55 tooth gear. If you focus at 50 ish feet instead of infinity you go to the next smaller gear because your lens has rolled forward 4mm etc. etc. 360mm = a 31 gear. Test test test with the 70mm film and once it's dialed in, use up some 6" or 5" film.

Gearcalcs6

Gear calcs #6 Cirkut = EFL where gear matches perfectly multiplier=438.46

gear EFL_inches EFL_mm

24 18.27 464.03

25 00000 000

26 00000 000

27 16.24 412.48

28 15.66 397.75

29 15.12 384.03

30 14.62 371.23

31 14.14 359.254

32 13.7 348.03

33 13.28 337.48

34 12.89 327.55

35 12.52 318.2

36 12.18 309.35

37 11.85 300.99

38 11.54 293.07

39 11.24 285.56

40 10.96 278.42

41 10.69 271.63

42 10.44 265.16

43 10.2 258.99

44 9.965 253.11

45 9.74 247.48

46 9.53 242.1

47 9.32 237

48 9.13 232

49 8.95 227.3

50 8.76 222.74

51 8.6 218.37

52 8.43 214.17

53 8.273 210.13

54 8.12 206.24

55 7.97 202.48

56 7.83 198.87

57 7.7 195.38

58 7.56 192

59 7.43 188.7

60 7.3 185.6

61 7.19 182.57

62 7.07 179.62

63 6.96 177

64 6.85 174

65 6.75 171.3

66 6.64 168.7

Wow! Thank you! I have a lot of the 9 7/16 Agfa Aviphot pan 200. I’ll try and get some of that 70mm I see a lot of before cutting more of the big stuff down.

 

[jimgalli]

If you've built a film slitter, make up lots of 6" but use the 88mm leftover from the cut for testing. Good use of the leftover 240mm turned into 152. 88mm remains would work perfect for testing.

 

[Socialmocracy]

If you've built a film slitter, make up lots of 6" but use the 88mm leftover from the cut for testing. Good use of the leftover 240mm turned into 152. 88mm remains would work perfect for testing.

I have made one but not yet for the #6. I made one for my AL-Vista 3B and 5B as well as my Panoram Kodak No4. But I’ll surely be making one now for this. Good advice. I also have leftover cuts from them. Some 22mm and some 60mm.

 

[Socialmocracy]

Below are calcs I did for gears for my #6 outfit for all gears beginning at 24 teeth and ending with 66 teeth. Given in inches and mm focal length. So if you have a dandy old 210 G-Claron you go down the list and find it should work at infinity with a #53 gear. Etc. Don't lock yourself into using the original lens. These beasties seem to particularly love Artar's and other simple 4 element lenses. A 203 f7.7 Kodak would want a 55 tooth gear. If you focus at 50 ish feet instead of infinity you go to the next smaller gear because your lens has rolled forward 4mm etc. etc. 360mm = a 31 gear. Test test test with the 70mm film and once it's dialed in, use up some 6" or 5" film.

Gearcalcs6

Gear calcs #6 Cirkut = EFL where gear matches perfectly multiplier=438.46

gear EFL_inches EFL_mm

24 18.27 464.03

25 00000 000

26 00000 000

27 16.24 412.48

28 15.66 397.75

29 15.12 384.03

30 14.62 371.23

31 14.14 359.254

32 13.7 348.03

33 13.28 337.48

34 12.89 327.55

35 12.52 318.2

36 12.18 309.35

37 11.85 300.99

38 11.54 293.07

39 11.24 285.56

40 10.96 278.42

41 10.69 271.63

42 10.44 265.16

43 10.2 258.99

44 9.965 253.11

45 9.74 247.48

46 9.53 242.1

47 9.32 237

48 9.13 232

49 8.95 227.3

50 8.76 222.74

51 8.6 218.37

52 8.43 214.17

53 8.273 210.13

54 8.12 206.24

55 7.97 202.48

56 7.83 198.87

57 7.7 195.38

58 7.56 192

59 7.43 188.7

60 7.3 185.6

61 7.19 182.57

62 7.07 179.62

63 6.96 177

64 6.85 174

65 6.75 171.3

66 6.64 168.7

I made a spreadsheet for you from the information you posted.

Spreadsheet

 

[Socialmocracy]

Below are calcs I did for gears for my #6 outfit for all gears beginning at 24 teeth and ending with 66 teeth. Given in inches and mm focal length. So if you have a dandy old 210 G-Claron you go down the list and find it should work at infinity with a #53 gear. Etc. Don't lock yourself into using the original lens. These beasties seem to particularly love Artar's and other simple 4 element lenses. A 203 f7.7 Kodak would want a 55 tooth gear. If you focus at 50 ish feet instead of infinity you go to the next smaller gear because your lens has rolled forward 4mm etc. etc. 360mm = a 31 gear. Test test test with the 70mm film and once it's dialed in, use up some 6" or 5" film.

Gearcalcs6

Gear calcs #6 Cirkut = EFL where gear matches perfectly multiplier=438.46

gear EFL_inches EFL_mm

24 18.27 464.03

25 00000 000

26 00000 000

27 16.24 412.48

28 15.66 397.75

29 15.12 384.03

30 14.62 371.23

31 14.14 359.254

32 13.7 348.03

33 13.28 337.48

34 12.89 327.55

35 12.52 318.2

36 12.18 309.35

37 11.85 300.99

38 11.54 293.07

39 11.24 285.56

40 10.96 278.42

41 10.69 271.63

42 10.44 265.16

43 10.2 258.99

44 9.965 253.11

45 9.74 247.48

46 9.53 242.1

47 9.32 237

48 9.13 232

49 8.95 227.3

50 8.76 222.74

51 8.6 218.37

52 8.43 214.17

53 8.273 210.13

54 8.12 206.24

55 7.97 202.48

56 7.83 198.87

57 7.7 195.38

58 7.56 192

59 7.43 188.7

60 7.3 185.6

61 7.19 182.57

62 7.07 179.62

63 6.96 177

64 6.85 174

65 6.75 171.3

66 6.64 168.7

Jim, am I reading this right? Let’s say I use a 180mm lens. If I were to focus on something closer and had to expand my bellows to 210mm would I use a 53t gear? Or is this just for infinity?

 

[jimgalli]

Jim, am I reading this right? Let’s say I use a 180mm lens. If I were to focus on something closer and had to expand my bellows to 210mm would I use a 53t gear? Or is this just for infinity?

Sorry for long delay. On vacation and discovered Photrio had been relegated to spam folder which I hope I have fixed. But yes. That's correct although unlikely. A 180 clear out to 210 would be like 5 feet away from the subject, but the general idea is correct. So much so that you can focus at infinity first, make a pencil mark, then focus on your object and make a second pencil mark and count millimeters to select the gear.

 

[Socialmocracy]

Sorry for long delay. On vacation and discovered Photrio had been relegated to spam folder which I hope I have fixed. But yes. That's correct although unlikely. A 180 clear out to 210 would be like 5 feet away from the subject, but the general idea is correct. So much so that you can focus at infinity first, make a pencil mark, then focus on your object and make a second pencil mark and count millimeters to select the gear.

You are awesome Jim! Thank you. I found out my No.6 has a lot of pinholes that will need takin care of. I used your chart successfully with my Nikkor W 180 my elgeet 10” and the original lens.

Side note I have a No. 10 now as well. Lots to do with that one. Will post images to a new album on my Flickr at some point. Need to figure out why the motor needs help starting (probably a lack of lubricant issue) bellows needs to be replaced. Not going to be hard. I’m sure it will be like my century view. Pull tacks on the rear and unscrew the front. Clean the lens and make some gears. Only came with one gear a number 58t. Looks like I need a 12 inch dagor for that gear. The lens it came with is a triple convertible. 10,18,24.