Cinelarger

Hi
I picked up a Super 8 version, which takes 120 film with frame size of 56mm×72mm. Has a little lens in the front with a fixed aperture and focus. Aperture is only about 1mm.
Does anyone know anything about the exposure for this camera or any other helpful info?
Was thinking of using it as a camera as well as maybe duplicating some 8mm film.
I have no idea what type of viewing angle it will have or what type of depth of field. Guess I will need to try.
Also camera with an old roll of half exposed Kodakcolor x.

awty said:

Was thinking of using it as a camera as well as maybe duplicating some 8mm film.
I have no idea what type of viewing angle it will have or what type of depth of field.

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Never heard of this most interesting camera. Its use as generic camera would be most limited. It is a macro camera, designed for a fixed object-distance, which seemingly is only few millimeters ahead of the lens. It is intended for backlighting. At your intended use you likely have front lighting in mind, which would be hampered by the lens panel.

AgX said:

Never heard of this most interesting camera. Its use as generic camera would be most limited. It is a macro camera, designed for a fixed object-distance, which seemingly is only few millimeters ahead of the lens. It is intended for backlighting. At your intended use you likely have front lighting in mind, which would be hampered by the lens panel.

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I tested using some Delta 3200 in the hope I would get an image. Unfortunately in normal use there is only shadows. Was hoping with the small aperture it might be similar to a pinhole camera.
Tomorrow I will try close ups and copying super 8 frames. Hopefully I get something interesting.
Wonder what the lens is, looks to have more than one element.
Also the red window is using 6x9 numbers, so only get 8 shots/roll.

Not much, but something:

Here's a guy who uses a Cinelarger as part of his creative process:

LOL... my Dad had one of those slide viewers. I recall being tortured as a child after every vacation, passing that thing around the room looking at the slides of us having fun. Looking at slides was no fun. The last time I saw it my older brother was throwing it into the fireplace. Then my Dad graduated to a slide projector. Fortunately family vacations soon ceased.

choiliefan said:

Here's a guy who uses a Cinelarger as part of his creative process:

For Sale – ruben van luijk – imagerie obsolète

Posts about For Sale written by rubenvanluijk

rubenvanluijk.wordpress.com

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He used it as intended. The taking camera is a Super-8 cine-camera. And the Cinelarger (in the 16mm version, thus covering more than one frame) used to make enlargements of his movie-frames onto rollfilm (and from this to photopaper and then toned).

In this process he used a classic enlarger. Thus basically he could have skipped the Cinelarger. Maybe that step via colour rollfilm was important to him.

I recently acquired the 8mm and 'Super' 8mm TestRite cinelargers in 120 but have yet to try them out. Both are gated for split Double8 film and have red windows for 6x4.5cm and 6x9cm exposures respectively. The 'Super' 8mm version produces a bigger enlargement and predates the cine film format Super8. I don't have any Super8 stock at hand to see how it lines up in the gate; hopefully some sort of happy crop.

The original use case was probably something like 8mm positive -> 616/120 internegative -> contact print. 8mm negative -> 616/120 interpositive is also a possibility, as are ad-hoc positives from cut sheets of film or paper.

However, I have put a couple sheets of x-ray film into a Kodak 71173 16mm enlarger for testing. It is gated for 16mm cine (8x10mm) and produces 6x8cm enlargements. It produces crops from 16mm/110 frames and quad frames from unsplit Double8. Being collapsible it may have more utility as a camera than the fixed TestRite models but not much. At minimum extension with the shutter actuator still accessible you get an image circle that covers 16mm film + sprockets with a fixed focus of about 2ft. It might be capable of infinity focus when fully collapsed, which would also give a clue as to the optic's focal length -- probably 20-25mm.



One unfortunate side effect of not using backing paper & film lacking an anti-halation layer is a friendly reminder from Kodak that the enlarger uses 616 film, not 116!

It works fine for intended purpose. I think it needs 4 or 5 flashes form my little tiny flash.

I did 2 flashes on the first then 3 flashes on second.






Focal length is only on the front plain, maybe a few mm's

This petal was pressed the same as the film, 5 flashes.



Was having problems with the take up spool not keeping film tight, there is only the feed spool with a flexible bit of metal to hold everything tight and a pressure plate. Other pictures had light leaks.

Bronson Dugnutt said:

The original use case was probably something like 8mm positive -> 616/120 internegative -> contact print. 8mm negative -> 616/120 interpositive is also a possibility, as are ad-hoc positives from cut sheets of film or paper.

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Maybe the rollfilm with an negative was then either brought to a lab, as with ones standards snapshot films, to be contacted or enlarged. Or a amateur, who was typically not able to use his enlarger directly on his small-gauge films due to being coloured positives, used the resulting negatives in his enlarger.


Much later Agfa came back onto this idea of stills from a Super-8 homemovie with their Family system. This involved a rear-projection monitor added with an instant print facility based on Kodak's instant paper. The respective camera had a prominent stills button, to make a single exposure. This frame was simultaneously marked. Which lead the monitor to stop at this frame for still projecton and also yielding the chance to make a paper print from this still.

Kodak 71173 enlarger; Feather
40s exposure via blue filter LED bulb
Fuji HR-U, Parodinal 1+200 14'

Bronson Dugnutt said:

One unfortunate side effect of not using backing paper & film lacking an anti-halation layer is a friendly reminder from Kodak that the enlarger uses 616 film, not 116!

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AH-means are typically not needed at copy work, as in this case enlarging a movie frame, as in these cases the density range and thus the luminance range is smaller than the maximum range one comes across at taking photographs in the "real" world.

Bronson Dugnutt said:

Kodak 71173 enlarger; Feather
40s exposure via blue filter LED bulb
Fuji HR-U, Parodinal 1+200 14'

View attachment 321148

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Cool, it has possibilities, but they are limited and fiddly, 35mm would be a bit easier. I have a super 8 camera and want to make prints from the positive film.....once of cause I buy some super 8 film and chemistry.