Choosing the combo

TareqPhoto · Sep 11, 2011

Hi again,

Sorry to post or start this topic again and again, forgive me for that, but i don't care to ask same questions again for more clear answers or better ideas or guides.

So again about developing/processing film, as all/most of you highly recommending to stuck with 1 film and 1 developer and i know what is the reason, now the question is, which film to start with and which developer? all films and all developers can do the job on certain conditions so why i have to start with this developer and not the another one? also if i will start with 1 film and developer does that mean i shouldn't use any another film at all? In fact i don't want to go with push/pull processing, so in this case i want to use one film at say ISO 100 or 50 and another one at ISO 400, one will say one film can be pushed/pulled but i said i don't want to go this way, so how i can decide which film i should start with and which developer for it? i will get millions answers due to to each has his own, but how anyone of you started and how or why started with this film and that developer for example to stuck with?

I narrowed my B&W film choices to 4: Acros 100, FP4+, TMAX400 and HP5+, so one at 100-125 and another at 400.

TareqPhoto · Sep 11, 2011

Forgot to say or ask, is B&W film on MF will be different than on LF if using same film and same developer on both formats? not talking about resolution.

Jeff Kubach · Sep 11, 2011

I would go with FP4+ and D-76 or TMax 400 with Tmax develpor or HP5 and D-76. And stick with it for a while.

Jeff

TareqPhoto · Sep 11, 2011

Jeff Kubach said:
I would go with FP4+ and D-76 or TMax 400 with Tmax develpor or HP5 and D-76. And stick with it for a while.

Jeff

Why D-76 or TMAX? And if i didn't mention the films, will you post about those films?

Jeff Kubach · Sep 11, 2011

I geuss I'm familier with those, they also work for me!

Jeff

Rick A · Sep 11, 2011

D-76 is an old standard which almost all other developers are compared to. It allows full box speed with minimum grain, and good sharpness. T Max films are tabular grain and as such are symetrical in appearance for a near grainless look. I've been shooting a fair bit of TMax 400 4x5 lately, but at half speed and it is flawless, with excellent gradation and contrast. My 19yo daughter loves it in 135, full speed. I prefer 100speed and slower for most of my work though, lately shooting Shanghai GP-3 ei 100 in 120, and Fomapan 100, 135, 120 and 4x5. I think you would do well with TMax 100 and 400 and D-76 in all formats.

Nicholas Lindan · Sep 11, 2011

Rick A said:
I think you would do well with TMax 100 and 400 and D-76 in all formats.

Ditto: A very good starting point. No surprises, no foibles, nothing to look out for.

After becoming proficient with this combination you can then use it as a baseline from which you can judge other films and developers.

If you can't get Kodak in your country, the Ilford Delta films and ID-11 developer are a very close second.

Rick A · Sep 11, 2011

I agree Nicholas, I love Delta films. The only I'm shooting TMAX is I bought a pile of it for half price.

zsas · Sep 11, 2011

What has worked for me is I picked one developer and then tried many types of films that allowed me to narrow down to the stock that I most prefer based on aesthetic, quality, price and availability. I dont believe it is a good idea to stick with one film unless you know why you dont want to use the other based on your own experience of using it. It takes a while to see the differences (if any sometimes) in aesthetic and quality. In such case of lack of aesthetic/quality differences one needs to weight the choice of what to use by availability and cost when all things are equal. Buy a few rolls of one stock, shoot it in various conditions, soup, evaluate. Try another brand, repeat. After some time, you will know what works best for you. Sometimes price and availability trump aesthetic/quality, for some folks that is OK, others it is not....all up to you. I wish you the best in this most fun process!! After some time, many settle on 1 or 2 go-to films for most of their shooting....but some dont...that is up to you, hence why film is soooooooooo fun - the only right answer is what works best for you.

hpulley · Sep 11, 2011

Kodak's data sheet for T-MAX 400 does not recommend T-MAX developer for sheets, just rolls. Also, the development times for sheets and rolls are slightly different (with D-76, HC-110, et al) which might make a difference if you are trying to settle on one time for all films.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4043/f4043.pdf

TareqPhoto · Sep 11, 2011

Honestly speaking, i used 1 Gallon of D-76 last time and the impression is so so or not that 80% happy, but with my first developer which is TMAX i had almost 95-99% satisfied, Ilfosol say 85-90%, so i bought that TMAX again as i really like this film and so easy to use over D-76, but i bough HC-110 because i hear this name here and there many websites a lot, and because i see that i can use high dilutions then it will be last for more films over another less dilutions parts, i want to have dev for MF film and another for sheets, mostly i will start to shoot sheets for tests and MF will be normal general now, so i don't want to waste developer on sheets and no much for rolls.

TareqPhoto · Sep 11, 2011

Forgot to say that the most film i used so far since last year and the most rolls is available in my fridge is TMAX 400, then not sure if TMAX 100 or Acros is second high available, and also TMAX films and Acros are the most 2/3 films i shoot so far until last time, but i don't want to keep that Deltas and HP5+ and Tri-X out of use for long time.

TareqPhoto · Sep 11, 2011

Also forgot to say that i don't have any D-76 developer left and i can order it but later after few weeks, but should i do that if this is not my favorite dev yet for example but you all say it is best standard developer and leave the other available developers i have to wait?

markbarendt · Sep 11, 2011

Tareq,

IMO the specific combo you start with doesn't matter.

All of the stuff you've mentioned is of high quality and can produce great photos.

Flip a coin and let chance decide.

TareqPhoto · Sep 11, 2011

markbarendt said:
Tareq,

IMO the specific combo you start with doesn't matter.

All of the stuff you've mentioned is of high quality and can produce great photos.

Flip a coin and let chance decide.

I hope this is really correct 100% or it it just not your statement to end it up.

TareqPhoto · Sep 11, 2011

Michael R 1974 said:
I'm reluctant to post to these types of threads anymore but here goes. Any of the films you listed will work wonderfully with D76. Your chosen format can make a difference in the film choice primarily because of graininess. For example, in your 100-125 choice, Acros will have considerably finer grain than FP4. Likewise in 400, the latest version of TMAX 400 will be significantly finer grained than HP5 - in fact TMAX 400 is even finer grained than FP4+. But grain is only one factor. Some people would prefer HP5 over TMAX 400 because although it is grainier, it looks sharp. Note all the comments I'm making assume D76.

If you are shooting medium format or sheet film I would say FP4 is the best way to start. It is a little less finicky than Acros and other tabular grained films. And it is a spectacular film in general. Excellent gradation, sharp etc. One of my favourite films in any speed.

You said you were not entirely happy with D76. I'm not sure exactly what you didn't like, but I'd give it some more time. It is capable of whatever you need in a general purpose developer. One key recommendation I'd make (if you haven't been doing this already) is to use it diluted 1+1 with water. Used this way you'll get slightly more sharpness and better gradation. That is really the best way to start, and is pretty much the standard most films were optimized for. (Ilford ID11 is the same as D76 if one or the other is easier to get).

The 2 issues i had with D-76 that i didn't like much over another developers even it gives great results are: Sharpness and grain. Using same film on D-76 and another developer i got sharper result with the other developer over D-76, and the grain is a bit slightly higher with D-76, i shot many TMAX400 and used TMAX and D-76, the film out of TMAX look sharper than that from D-76, i am using 1+1 of that D-76, i used 1+3 once but all the time i was using 1+1, i got results nice, but to my eyes and scanner that TMAX dev results were better, but i can't go further about it because i am not expert or experienced as you anyway.

markbarendt · Sep 11, 2011

TareqPhoto said:
I hope this is really correct 100% or it it just not your statement to end it up.

I believe that it is really and truly correct.

Sure there are differences and nuances between different combos but the differences are ones of personality not quality.

Rick A · Sep 11, 2011

If you weren't happy with D-76 then pick the developer you were happiest with and have experience with. That's the best part of photography, it's subjective and personal preference wins every time.

Tareq, this year you must take notes of everything you do, then refer back to them for future decisions.

TareqPhoto · Sep 11, 2011

markbarendt said:
I believe that it is really and truly correct.

Sure there are differences and nuances between different combos but the differences are ones of personality not quality.

I agree about the personality not the quality, it is just subjective matter as usual, and honestly speaking, all those films are amazing whatever the look/result i get out of them.

TareqPhoto · Sep 11, 2011

Rick A said:
If you weren't happy with D-76 then pick the developer you were happiest with and have experience with. That's the best part of photography, it's subjective and personal preference wins every time.

Tareq, this year you must take notes of everything you do, then refer back to them for future decisions.

How or what is the best want to take notes and do records??? I did note before but pity bad that i forgot which roll i did develop with that developer, i have many same film with different developers so i can tell if this film done by the developer unless i scan or look through light and magnifier and see the results printed maybe or zoomed in 100%, but even thought i can be misled also sometimes, so i want to be accurate when taking notes so i will not forget which film and which developer, also what things i have to write down as notes?

hpulley · Sep 11, 2011

How do you store your negatives? I put them in PrintFile (APUG Sponsor) archival storage sheets which have a white section on them at the top where you can write notes with a permanent marker. Then you will always know how you developed it (you'll still need to make notes about how you shot it unless you're using a camera that writes the information somewhere, only the very last film bodies can do this).

Be careful when judging negatives from scans. I find that auto-sharpening algorithms can create artefacts and so on. Looking at the negatives under the enlarger with a grain magnifier is the best way to see how grainy it is, how sharp.

Rick A · Sep 11, 2011

Tareq my friend, you are the perfect poster child for one film, one developer. To end the confusion just pick one film that is available in all formats you shoot, shoot one roll then develope it immediatly(or 2-4 sheets). Write down all particulars of the setting including speed/f stop, lighting, etc. for every exposure. Compare the results of the negatives with how they were shot and mark the ones that fail and why, mark the ones that are successful and why. Study your notes so that when you are confronted with the same or similar situation you will know how to handle it. Do not, if possible, let your films build up undeveloped so you forget what you did. I know you truly want to master this, and you are dedicated to following through with it.

jeroldharter · Sep 12, 2011

I agree about picking any combo and testing it is the best way to get started. I did the same thing.

Factors to consider are availability, shipping costs, keeping quality in a warm environment.

I would eliminate liquid developers. I would pick Kodak or Ilford films based on availability.

Also, you should keep in mind reciprocity characteristics depending on the type of photography you do.
I picked Kodak TMY2 (TMAX 400) with Xtol when I went through the same process.

To reassure yourself, you might pick 2 films and 2 developers and do testing each.

TareqPhoto · Sep 12, 2011

hpulley said:
How do you store your negatives? I put them in PrintFile (APUG Sponsor) archival storage sheets which have a white section on them at the top where you can write notes with a permanent marker. Then you will always know how you developed it (you'll still need to make notes about how you shot it unless you're using a camera that writes the information somewhere, only the very last film bodies can do this).

Be careful when judging negatives from scans. I find that auto-sharpening algorithms can create artefacts and so on. Looking at the negatives under the enlarger with a grain magnifier is the best way to see how grainy it is, how sharp.

About the first part, yes, you are right, i should use that negatives sleeves or storage sheets to write notes on them, good idea, this will help for sure, thanks.

Second part of your post, well, i can scan just flat make default adjustments and tick/check off all the options including sharpness, but even if i left that sharpness on, if the film is sharp it will be sharper, if the film is not that sharp then it will be slightly sharp but not sharp as razor or that good enough sharpness, but i can check the negs under light table or even f i am not sure i can go to our photography club and check it with there enlarger checking magnifier/light, but sometimes the sharpness is not a problem, and it depends on how i did shoot and the focus not only the processing with chemicals.

TareqPhoto · Sep 12, 2011

Rick A said:
Tareq my friend, you are the perfect poster child for one film, one developer. To end the confusion just pick one film that is available in all formats you shoot, shoot one roll then develope it immediatly(or 2-4 sheets). Write down all particulars of the setting including speed/f stop, lighting, etc. for every exposure. Compare the results of the negatives with how they were shot and mark the ones that fail and why, mark the ones that are successful and why. Study your notes so that when you are confronted with the same or similar situation you will know how to handle it. Do not, if possible, let your films build up undeveloped so you forget what you did. I know you truly want to master this, and you are dedicated to following through with it.

the problem is that i started already and i ended up before i stop shooting film with about 20 rolls of B&W films [i have another rolls colors], i noted on the last rolls and forgot to refer to them on the sleeve or the negative storage sheet, so i forgot which developer, even if i read the note about this film with developer but there are 6-8 rolls of same film developer with 2 different developers on different circumstances.

This time i will make sure that i know each film from beginning to the end[printing] so then i will have a better reference of what i've did, i did tests only last time and honestly speaking, i don't have very big issues, the only issues i had so far was few rolls so dense which and few rolls with blank shots and one sheet with double exposure that left the another sheet blank, and i always cheat myself that as long i get the results even a bit bad or dense or not exposed/developed very well properly i just accept it to not feel disappointed about how and why it failed.

Choosing the combo

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