Choice of Solida 111 or Balda Super Baldax - advice needed

Barfly · Oct 8, 2023

I have sourced from a dealer two cameras that interest me and I would like advice on which to choose. They are both the same price.
Solida 111 with 2.9 Radionnar and Synchro Compur 1-500 and a Balda Super Baldax with 3.5 Baldanar 1-300 and Proctor SVS. The Solida has no red indicator on the lens bezel so perhaps it is not coated (?) though with a lens serial number of 49xxxxxxx it was produced so long after other similar lenses wihich are definitely coated. I am dealing at arms length with the Dealer and photos show a bluish tint to the lens which would indicate coated.

Both cameras as in very good shape cosmetically although the Balda does show signs of wear on the leatherette covering, not so with the Solida.

The coupled rangefinder of the Balda appeals but it is not a dealbreaker. Both cameras will almost certainly require a mild professional CLA at some stage so is the Compur noticeably more costly to dismantle. My interest in MF is 'slow time' photography with churches, especially interiors and architecture generally, a real interest.

I value quality of construction and sound design in cameras though I know that neither of these even approach an Ikonta or a Voigtlander but those are beyond my price range.

JPD · Oct 8, 2023

The Super Baldax has the unit focusing lens and coupled rangefinder, so that's the one I would have chosen. The Franka has the better shutter, but a front element focusing lens and no rangefinder. Both lenses should be coated.

Dustin McAmera · Oct 8, 2023

If this is likely to be your only medium-format folder, I'd hold out for a Tessar, or a copy of one, in preference to a triplet.

xya · Oct 8, 2023

I would take the Balda. I had one and it was very good https://www.120folder.com/balda_super_baldax.htm. It has coupled rangefinder with automatic film advance and double exposure prevention. And it's one of the smallest and lightest full featured folders.

Balda made cameras and lenses for top class companies like Voigtländer and Minox. I remenber that the Super Baldax lens was well coated and had good contrast in b&w and in colour.

Rolleiflexible · Oct 8, 2023

JPD said:
The Super Baldax has the unit focusing lens and coupled rangefinder, so that's the one I would have chosen. The Franka has the better shutter, but a front element focusing lens and no rangefinder. Both lenses should be coated.

Agreed for the most part. The Super Baldax is the clear choice here, because of the coupled rangefinder and the superior focusing mechanism.

I disagree about the shutters. The Synchro Compur is on paper the better shutter. In real life, it is much more complex and prone to malfunction. The Prontor is a comparatively simple and primitive shutter that will rarely require servicing, and that is easily serviced. I would take the Prontor over the synchro Compur any day.

Balda made good cameras. I have two -- a Super Pontura, which is basically a 6x9 version of the Super Baldax, and a Hapo 66, a rebranded Baldax. Both make great photos. The triplet lenses will be plenty sharp over most of the frame, softer in the corners at wider apertures. Have fun.

retina_restoration · Oct 8, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
The Synchro Compur is on paper the better shutter. In real life, it is much more complex and prone to malfunction.

Absolutely not true. I've serviced scores of them and they require very little work to make them run like new.

Rolleiflexible · Oct 8, 2023

retina_restoration said:
Absolutely not true. I've serviced scores of them and they require very little work to make them run like new.

Surely you are correct as a technician. But speaking as someone not trained in repairs, I feel as if I can manage to free a sticky Prontor shutter on my own with a screwdriver and some naptha. When I look inside of a Synchro Compur, I see that tearing it down and cleaning it is beyond me.

FWIW, I am not alone in this view. Certo6 has restored and resold hundreds of these folders. This is his take on the two shutters:

"My experience in CLAing over 300 folders during the past 5 years has not been very supportive of the superiority of the Synchro-Compur shutter. My experience has been that I have had to disassemble / repair far more Synchro-Compurs than Prontors by an 8:1 margin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general then, based on my experience, is the obvious conclusion that the Prontors are more reliable than Synchro-Compurs, AND, if a Prontor needs service it does not [need] a complete stripdown as a Synchro-Compur does."

Source:

Shutters – Certo6

I respect your expertise. But I do not think my point is "absolutely not true."

To take the discussion a step further: What advantages do you see from the Synchro Compur on the Franka? Do you think a 70-year-old shutter is going to fire accurately at 1/500? I don't trust the top speeds of the Synchro Compur shutters in my Rolleiflexes, let alone on an exposed lens cell that opens and closes on folder struts throughout many decades of use.

The Prontor is a workhorse -- not as flashy, but on a folder I doubt any real advantage obtains to the Synchro Compur.

Barfly · Oct 9, 2023

A hearty thankyou to all of the responders and I have taken the advice given, on board, so the Balda it will be.

Very helpful advice on these forums and exactly what was needed.

xya · Oct 9, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
...FWIW, I am not alone in this view. Certo6 has restored and resold hundreds of these folders. This is his take on the two shutters:

"My experience in CLAing over 300 folders during the past 5 years has not been very supportive of the superiority of the Synchro-Compur shutter...."

I have not bought from Certo6, but I have read through quite some discussions about the quality of his work. I would at least take what he says with more than one grain of salt.

His approach to soak all shutters in solvent, let them dry and sell them as serviced is a brute one in my eyes. The shutter may work again, but sometimes not for long. And after-sale service seems to be a real problem.

I do not service my shutters, I leave this to professionals. I have owned more than 100 folders and I cannot confirm his ratio at all.

Dustin McAmera · Oct 9, 2023

Elsewhere on his site, Certo6 guy says the ratio of 'bad' to 'good' bellows in Agfa Isolettes is 'something like 50 to one'; now, I only have one Isolette, but also a Solinette, a Standard and a Billy zero all from Agfa, and no holes in any of their bellows: I seem to have lived a charmed life. I don't think the guy's statistics are to be relied on. I note that he makes money by cleaning shutters and replacing bellows.

But in any case, if we are to reject devices for being complex and finicky, then let's all put aside our Rolleiflexes, Hasselblads, and Leicas with their delicate, expensive mechanisms, and stick to robust Brownie box cameras.

Rolleiflexible · Oct 9, 2023

xya said:
I have not bought from Certo6, but I have read through quite some discussions about the quality of his work. I would at least take what he says with more than one grain of salt.

His approach to soak all shutters in solvent, let them dry and sell them as serviced is a brute one in my eyes. The shutter may work again, but sometimes not for long. And after-sale service seems to be a real problem.

I do not service my shutters, I leave this to professionals. I have owned more than 100 folders and I cannot confirm his ratio at all.

I have bought from him. I have spoken at length with him. I do not believe your assumptions about how he services shutters are accurate. Since all you are doing here is repeating what you recall having read elsewhere, I am not much moved by your recollections, even assuming they are accurate. Especially since you acknowledge that you lack any skill at servicing shutters yourself.

Dustin McAmera said:
Elsewhere on his site, Certo6 guy says the ratio of 'bad' to 'good' bellows in Agfa Isolettes is 'something like 50 to one'; now, I only have one Isolette, but also a Solinette, a Standard and a Billy zero all from Agfa, and no holes in any of their bellows: I seem to have lived a charmed life. I don't think the guy's statistics are to be relied on. I note that he makes money by cleaning shutters and replacing bellows.

Surely you recognize that your individual experience with a few cherry-picked examples (one assumes you chose your cameras with care to avoid bad bellows) has no relevance to Certo6’s observations of the hundreds of folders with bellows that have crossed his workbench over the years.

Yes, he is in business. Yes, he makes money by replacing bellows. But if that is queering his results, then he should be steering people toward cameras with bad bellows and complex shutters so he can make more money. Hating on this seller because he shares his observations about the cameras he sells makes no sense to me. My experiences with him have been positive.

Rolleiflexible · Oct 9, 2023

Dustin McAmera said:
But in any case, if we are to reject devices for being complex and finicky, then let's all put aside our Rolleiflexes, Hasselblads, and Leicas with their delicate, expensive mechanisms, and stick to robust Brownie box cameras.

The question is whether it makes sense to prefer a folder with a more complex shutter. Given that folders are inherently less precise cameras (misalignments from moving lens mounts, front-cell focusing for most, lack of coupled rangefinders, etc) I would say the advantages of a more complex shutter are lost on them.

I love my Rolleiflexes. They all have Syncro Compur shutters. And they are anything but robust. I have the service records to prove it. In a Rolleiflex, they are worth the hassle. In a cheap folder, where the cost of a shutter repair will equal the camera’s value, give me a bulletproof shutter.

xya · Oct 9, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
...Especially since you acknowledge that you lack any skill at servicing shutters yourself....

That's not correct. I have the skills to do it myself quite well. I lack time and patience. So I can tell by watching a repair man whether he is good at it.

Dustin McAmera · Oct 9, 2023

My few cherry-picked Agfas came from ebay; obviously I buy ones that look ok but I still think I'd be beating long odds if Certo6's one-in-fifty number was anything like true. I still manage to buy some stinkers: Kershaw and Certo were the worst examples, but some of my best cameras are also Certos. In fact, I'm tempted to recommend to the OP that he get a Super Sport Dolly like mine, with an uncoated f/2.8 Tessar and a Compur shutter, with speeds to 1/250; it has unit focusing and a coupled RF. The RF is of a difficult design to see through, with a split central image instead of overlapping dual-image; but I love the lens and the shutter and I love that I can do both square format and 4.5x6 by removable masks. The OP is in London, so 'ought' to be getting an Ensign with a Ross Xpres and a dodgy British Epsilon shutter.

I don't think what I have said about Certo6 qualifies as hate; just healthy scepticism. Buyer beware, innit: my 'individual experience' with people who want to sell you stuff is that their advice isn't unbiased. Does Certo6 offer for sale any cameras with the description 'didn't need mending so I didn't mend it'? (I genuinely don't know).

The Prontor name covered everything down to everset shutters with speeds only going to about 1/100. The Prontor the OP is considering is a Prontor SVS, complete with a delayed-action mech; a bit like this one (this is 00 size; I think he'd be getting a 0 size):

I don't think that's much simpler than a Compur. Here's a Synchro-Compur, on the left:

I wouldn't be diving into either one of them with my screwdrivers. The most I have done on anything this complicated is drops of lighter fuel in, mop it up, and repeat.

Rolleiflexible · Oct 9, 2023

Dustin McAmera said:
I don't think what I have said about Certo6 qualifies as hate; just healthy scepticism. Buyer beware, innit: my 'individual experience' with people who want to sell you stuff is that their advice isn't unbiased.

My sense is that the internet has deadened us all to the corrosive use of words. And especially so here on our side of the world, with a former President clamoring to execute shoplifters. You may have meant to voice scepticism. It read to me as an attack. But I appreciate your point. And I do agree that there is some measure of puffing in Certo6’s remarks. I imagine his defense of Prontors might come from having a lot of them in inventory. But in my experience his point seems sound, if perhaps exaggerated.

guangong · Oct 9, 2023

It’s interesting to note what supposedly political comments the censors allow and don’t allow.

guangong · Oct 9, 2023

xya said:
I would take the Balda. I had one and it was very good https://www.120folder.com/balda_super_baldax.htm. It has coupled rangefinder with automatic film advance and double exposure prevention. And it's one of the smallest and lightest full featured folders.

Balda made cameras and lenses for top class companies like Voigtländer and Minox. I remenber that the Super Baldax lens was well coated and had good contrast in b&w and in colour.

This is off topic, but what cameras and/or lenses did Balda make for Minox? Just curious as a Minox user.

JPD · Oct 9, 2023

I have had better lock in getting Compur shutters going at the longer speeds than Prontors, but that's my personal experience. I've had luck with lesser quality shutters like the Epsilon and Tempor. Haven't had hundreds of them, but they worked just fine. The five or six Agfa 6x9 folders I had all had pinholes in the bellows.

guangong said:
This is off topic, but what cameras and/or lenses did Balda make for Minox? Just curious as a Minox user.

The plastic cameras for 135 and 110 film. I'm not sure if Balda made the lenses.

Dustin McAmera · Oct 9, 2023

Rolleiflexible said:
You may have meant to voice scepticism. It read to me as an attack.

An attack? I'm sorry if you felt that, but can I suggest you read the posts from retina_restoration, xya and myself? Nobody said anything about you. Nobody used the word 'you' or 'your' once: we talked about shutters, and about whether we agreed with Certo6's statements. Your replies used 'you' and 'your' many times, in sentences like 'I am not much moved by your recollections, even assuming they are accurate', and 'Since all you are doing here is repeating what you recall having read elsewhere,'. Seemed to me you gave up talking about shutters, and instead turned on us, dismissing our opinions and experience, and implying bad faith. Nobody was trying to start a fight with you; we just hold different opinions.

Rolleiflexible · Oct 9, 2023

Dustin McAmera said:
An attack? I'm sorry if you felt that, but can I suggest you read the posts from retina_restoration, xya and myself? Nobody said anything about you.

I did not feel attacked. To me, the posts read as unfairly critical of Certo6, based (according to the posts) on hearsay. I was defending Certo6, not myself.

retina_restoration · Oct 9, 2023

Dustin McAmera said:
I don't think that's much simpler than a Compur. Here's a Synchro-Compur, on the left:

Clearly the Prontor is a MUCH simpler shutter than the Compur LOL

guangong · Oct 9, 2023

JPD said:
I have had better lock in getting Compur shutters going at the longer speeds than Prontors, but that's my personal experience. I've had luck with lesser quality shutters like the Epsilon and Tempor. Haven't had hundreds of them, but they worked just fine. The five or six Agfa 6x9 folders I had all had pinholes in the bellows.

The plastic cameras for 135 and 110 film. I'm not sure if Balda made the lenses.

From my experience with Minox 35 cameras ( at least four), that would be a poor recommendation. No experience with 110. But thank you for the info because new to me. I have always been impressed by results of 8x11 Minox cameras.

Romanko · Oct 9, 2023

Barfly said:
I know that neither of these even approach an Ikonta or a Voigtlander

I have a Franka Rolfix, multiple Ikontas and several Voigtländer folders and I find them all equally good. Radionar f4.5 105 mm is a pretty sharp lens with pleasant rendering. For interior and architectural shots you'll be using small apertures so most triplet lenses would be quite adequate.

Rolleiflexible · Oct 10, 2023

JPD said:
I'm not sure if Balda made the lenses.

FWIW, my understanding is that Balda did not make lenses. See, e.g., http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Baldina .

J Derby · Oct 30, 2023

Barfly said:
A hearty thankyou to all of the responders and I have taken the advice given, on board, so the Balda it will be.

Very helpful advice on these forums and exactly what was needed.

Appologies, I'm a bit late to the 'party' so to speak, however I have a few Balda Super Baldax cameras (currently16 so far). I also have a few Franka Solida cameras, mainly Mkii and Mkiii's). The Balda Super Baldax is the better made camera (in my opinion). I think I have all the lens combinations for the Super Baldax, and even though the Baldanar f3.5 80mm lens is the slowest lens to be fitted to this camera it is capable of taking very nice photos. The Super Baldax is also a little 'quirky' with the way the film wind mechanism works and 'quirky' is half the fun. You only need to use the red window on the first shot, after that if the mechanism is working correctly the rest of the shots will be correctly spaced.
Photo attached of a similar Super Baldax with the Baldanar f3.5 lens and a mess Baldix with uncoupled rangefinder and Ennagon f3.5 lens on the right. A small shutter speed tester is on the left of the picture.

Kind regards
Jeff

Choice of Solida 111 or Balda Super Baldax - advice needed

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency