Chinese Films

All,
What can you tell me about chinese films ? A friend of mine is taking a trip over there for business, so I figure I'll have him bring me back a selection of films that isn't available here. But, what should I have him look for ?

Thanks !

I can't answer your question directly, but FYI, both Freestyle and JandC sell Lucky film, so if you find you like it, you can get it pretty easily in the US.

I recently imported a carton of 400 rolls of Shantou Era B&W film from China. I have been told repeatedly by members of various online photo communities that it is better-regarded in China than Lucky, which reportedly lacks an anti-halation layer.

I have sold the film and won't be repeating, so I am not offering to sell any at this time. However, if you're going to be purchasing film in China, I would recommend Shantou Era over Lucky based on my own experiences as well as word-of-mouth reports I've gotten.

It cost me quite a bit to ship the film here to the US, so I had to sell it for quite a bit more than it sells for in China. I am told it sells very inexpensively if you are in China.

Here are some of the results I obtained using the stuff myself:

In Diafine:
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In HC-110:
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In Rodinal:
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In D-76:
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Compared to Arista.EDU Ultra
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Please note that many of the images online were early and experimental - after most of them, I ended up scaling back my dev times substantially, particularly with Rodinal. I now process Shantou Era in Rodinal 1:50 for 12 minutes @ 70 degrees F.

I processed the negs, scanned the results with a Konica-Minolta ScanDual IV on the highest resolution with Vuescan (linux) and resized using GwenView (linux). I did not adjust levels, crop, or retouch the scans in any way, so the dust and scratches are the fault of my processing, pretty much. What you see is what I saw, to the nearest extent possible.

Hope you find it helpful.

Thanks for all of the info, excellent test you have there BTW.
I'm curious to see what he'll be able to come up with.

Wigwam Jones said:

Here are some of the results I obtained using the stuff myself:

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Wiggy, what Western film (current or historic) would you compare this to?

Pragmatist said:

Wiggy, what Western film (current or historic) would you compare this to?

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I don't know, honestly. For many years, I just shot Tri-X and used D76 and nothing else. So my experience is somewhat limited.

If I had to compare to any film I've used, I'd say Fomapan, which is saying something, because I like Fomapan's look quite a lot. For awhile, I thought it was something like APX 100, but I suspect not now that I realize I was overdeveloping it all the time in just about everything. It has less contrast at correct dev times than APX100, perhaps more like Fujipan Neo 100 SS, but the grain is not quite as smooth or tight. Of course, I tend to prefer that.

I did put some whopper-sized files online, you can click on them and see them just about full-scan sized, if that helps at all.

I think someone with more experience than I have with the various high-end western films would be more likely to be able to make an honest comparison.

I will say it beats the Lucky I tried hands-down, though. I'd use Lucky specifically for that loosey-goosey look, but not for typical photography.

How expensive is lucky?

Markok765 said:

How expensive is lucky?

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$2 at JandC.

Wigwam Jones said:

In Diafine:
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In HC-110:
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In Rodinal:
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In D-76:
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This is quite an interesting comparison. Did you also do a similar kind of analysis with other sorts of films?

Hans Borjes said:

This is quite an interesting comparison. Did you also do a similar kind of analysis with other sorts of films?

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No, I haven't. When I bought the big box of Shantou Era, it was with the intent of selling it by the roll, to see if there was any interest in yet another odd B&W film and to make a buck if I could. But there was precious little developing information out there about Shantou Era. Some info on D76 on their website, very vague. So I thought if I was going to sell the stuff, I'd better try to come up with some times in various popular developers and also see how it looked in them. So that's what I did. On RFF and I think nelsonfoto, others came up with their own favorite concoctions and posted them there as well.

I have often done lens comparos, because I'm the kind of guy who wants to put 'common wisdom' to the test - I'll go out and try to reproduce the same shot with five different lenses, then develop the film and scan the negs and look critically at the results. Given that I'm no scientist and my methods are still subjective, I think it gives me a reasonable enough idea of what the truth might be. I don't like using rumors as facts when I can find out for myself with a little testing or a little digging. I've always been that way.

So sorry for the long story - short answer is no, I haven't done this kind of research on other films because there already was good info on how to process them.

SteveH said:

All,
What can you tell me about chinese films ? A friend of mine is taking a trip over there for business, so I figure I'll have him bring me back a selection of films that isn't available here. But, what should I have him look for ?

Thanks !

Click to expand...

As well as the Lucky & Shantou Era films already mentioned, there is also Shaghai GP3 which is a ISO 100 film normally in 120 rollfilm though apparently it is produced in 35mm but only for a large minimum quantity. The Lucky films (in 35mm & 120 in both 100 & 400 speeds), the Era in 35mm & 4 x5 sheet & the Shanghai in 120 are all available on various ebay sites from a seller in Taiwan. The cost is very low but the shipping adds on a lot but even so it is still very economical. This seller confirms that in China itself the Era film is the best regarded.

There seems general agreement that the Lucky fiilms have a halation problem. Because Lucky has some technical links with Kodak (which owns part of it) some people have claimed that the films are similar to T-Max and elsewhere it is claimed the 100 speed is like Plus-X but these Lucky films are clearly quite different from any Kodak films.

According to the Era site the sheet film is also in other sizes and they also make an interesting looking ISO 25 film but it is only sold in bulk lengths.

Apart from Lucky colour films, I don't know what else you can find there apart from Kodak's own range. When the Chinese photographic industry was restructured some years ago Kodak was allowed to gobble up several local firms & close them down. So it would be interesting to know what else survives. Please let us know what your friend can find!

Out of necessity, Chinese-made BW emulsions are one of the two we have here. The other of course is Kodak, which is then limited to Tmax. We used to have Lucky pan, but the one we have left is an unknown generic type which could be related to Era. Between the two, Lucky is more modern in the sense that it develops faster and has higher resolution. The generic Chinese emulsion is rather mushy.

As others have already stated, Lucky tends to have some halation issues. Shorter development times (go for the shorter end of the recommended range or else use higly diluted developers, like D76 1+3 instead of going for the full strength brew) tends to minimise these effects and promote better resolution and tonal qualities.

I rather like the old-style generic emulsion. It goes well with ancient rangefinder cameras and lenses. It can take you straight to the past, giving otherwise modern exposures a 'dated' look.

Jay