Chinese 16x20 camera

I saw a thread about this camera on the LF site and thought it might be of some interest here. I have one question about the camera. Does it fold up somehow, or do you transport it with what looks like about 18" of extension?


http://cgi.ebay.com/Mint-16X20-WOOD...567520843QQcategoryZ15248QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hi Jim. I don`t see how the front standard can fold but it may be that you lift the entire front by unscrewing it from the center and laying the entire thing flat. The rear std looks like it does fold. Either way, this looks like another Philips knock off and kind of expensive for something out of China (?). And $500 for shipping the thing to the US? Come on...!!

Jim Chinn said:

I saw a thread about this camera on the LF site and thought it might be of some interest here. I have one question about the camera. Does it fold up somehow, or do you transport it with what looks like about 18" of extension?


http://cgi.ebay.com/Mint-16X20-WOOD...567520843QQcategoryZ15248QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Click to expand...

We've been looking at it as well. To us it seems to have a hinged back. The hinge is near the point where the metal double legs attach to the back standard. But even then, the front standard has no hinge, so it would need to be unscrewed and then folded under somehow. Not very handy. And have you considered what happens to the equilibrium of the contraption when you need full extension of the bellows? You'd need the second tripod that you kept hidden in the saddle bag of the mule you hired for your trekking expedition...

All in all, the sellers may need to address these issues in a next model...?

$500 to ship that thing to the USA???? What is that guy drinking? I had my mamiya with three lenses and a spot meter sent to me from Hong Kong 3 day delivery using DHL (also in Bejing) and it was only $95 for all of it. Weight it may be a few more pounds, but not $400 extra cost. That and it doesn't arrive for 14 days. Yeah right they are taking a huge cut from the postage.

$500--that's for it to have a seat on a plane. For more, it can go first class!

Matt

Watch out for this group, out of all of the international stuff I have ever shipped, this is the only group that ever attempted to rip me off, and they tried to do it big time, I would be very wary of anything the Viewcameraclub Says or does...not a good group of people to deal with.

Buyer beware, that is if it every showed up, and for $500.00 I could fly to China and pick it up myself!!!!

Dave

I don't know about you guys but this is a great price for a 16x20. Half the current going price for a Wisner 16x20 which is 9 grand now for the lightweight model and half the weight for the Chinese camera as well. $500- is not unreasonable to air ship door to door if they use DHL (a reliable carrier). But they may be charging for packing too.I'm sure it would be a couple of hundred less if you were willing to pick it up at your airport instead of your front door and deal with customs yourself. This is what I do regulary for shipments coming in from Nepal and India for my giftshop. The most recent delivery was 200- for 95 lbs. Shen-Hao charges $250- for shipping plus bank and customs expenses for a much smaller 7x17. I just sent a 12x20 to Singapore and believe me it is a real PITA to pack a camera of that size and dimension overseas, it took me over 4 hours to do it right as I was very concerned with breakage. But the real question is...is this camera good or not? Do you mind me asking exactly (Satin Snow) what was the nature of the ""rip off" in the past in dealing with the View camera club? Was it simply a mistake that was rectified... or a real dis-ingenuous situation? Please e-mail me offline if you prefer.Emile/www.deleon-ulf.com

Emile I have dealt with DHL door to door service from Hong Kong. I did handle the customs myself which were a whopping $35 on a package that weighed 12 pounds. The cost was $95. I did have a friend pack it, but that was not a hardship for him. I think he used 5 pounds worth of bubble wrap and plastic peanuts. I had three day service which is more expensive. We sent a case of Mountain Dew soda pop to Venezuela (don't ask) and it was $125 to do that the weight was 30 pounds. We also used DHL on that one. The $500 is just out of line.

Well we went through a claim of not receiving their order which was quite a large order, I had to provide documentation that it was in fact shipped, and was signed for on their end, as it was not a single piece shipment, it was quite a large shipment with several sizes of glass involved, so it was sent with tracking and delivery confirmation, even after investigation the people involved in this club claimed they never recieved the items, fortunately I am very careful when I ship anything to that part of the world and after about 6 months of investigation, we were able to prove it was shipped and it was received on their end and signed for within their company, so hence they dropped the claim of not receiving the items, in fact the possibility exists that the screen you are seeing in this listing, may in fact be one of my screens that was claimed as never being received!, I am very leary of shipping to this area of the world anylonger and would strongly advise not dealing with this particular group, based on my documented experiance and such, I ship all over the world, in fact we have shipped to over 70 countries as of today and the only time I have ever had any problems is China, I am a very honest person who goes out of my way to try and make sure my customers are very happy, all the way upto and including refunding money and still making sure they have a new screen, this group has not, in my opinion fostered the same good faith, hence my assertion that anyone dealing with them, should be very careful and document every single thing you do with them, I don't play games, and I don't expect people and companies to play games with me. Also, I can attest, shipping large pieces of glass half way around the world is the biggest PITA you will ever deal with!!!

Dave

medform-norm said:

We've been looking at it as well. To us it seems to have a hinged back. The hinge is near the point where the metal double legs attach to the back standard. But even then, the front standard has no hinge, so it would need to be unscrewed and then folded under somehow. Not very handy. And have you considered what happens to the equilibrium of the contraption when you need full extension of the bellows? You'd need the second tripod that you kept hidden in the saddle bag of the mule you hired for your trekking expedition...

All in all, the sellers may need to address these issues in a next model...?

Click to expand...

I think Mr Grenier has it right, it looks like as if the builder has "borrowed" the construction details from the Phillips' design portfolio. In that case the front standard would indeed be unscrewed from bed to fold the camera. This may seem cumbersome in theory but (imo) works well in practice. I have had the pleasure of using my friends "Compact II" fairly extensively and folding and unfolding the camera is no more trouble (or any slower) than the same operation with my Lotus. The front standard design also produces a very rigid bed to standard joint with a (literal) minimum of parts. I think that the Phillips design provides many benefits, e.g., simplicity, reliability, superior rigidity and lower weight... trade offs are no geared movements, nonstandard operation and perhaps funky cosmetics. As far as providing auxiliary support for the front of the bed at long extensions I thought that was SOP... but my experience with cameras larger than 8X10 is limited to Koronas and what is normal with such ancient things is unlikely to be normal with anything else. There is a comprehensive review of a Phillips 8x10 on LFinfo: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/phillips.html . Obviously the information in the review does not pertain to the quality (or lack thereof) of either the function or construction of the camera in question. What the camera in the auction resembles is no guaruntee that it won't be a "DOG". (and a very expensive pooch at that...) As far as the shipping cost is concerned one can easily go to the UPS website and use their calculator to guesstimate international shipping costs. When I plug in a weight of 25 lbs, package dimensions of 25"x25"x15", and a shipping value of 5K USD I get 462.13 from my zip to Hong Kong. Remember the the cost includes the insurance valuation and charges for customs brokering (but not the duty). This mirrors my experience in shipping enlargers and enlarger parts to Europe, India and Japan. I think the most important point here is the clear warning provided by Satin Snow's bad experience, caveat emptor.
Celac.

Not interested in buying one, just curious about how it works since I could not see any specific hardware from the images.

I do however second Dave's caution about dealing with firms in China (either PRC or Taiwan). What often looks to be a simple transaction can turn into months of wrangling and red tape. I know from the nightmare experiences of a friend who lost money in incompleted business deals and also evident in the problems with the group of APUGgers waiting for amidol from a Chinese source. And if these people send a poor product or take the money and run you have almost no recourse or remedy.

Aggie,
If you insured your soda pop for 5 or 6 grand the cost would have been way higher

Emile de Leon said:

Aggie,
If you insured your soda pop for 5 or 6 grand the cost would have been way higher

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No but my mamiya 7II was insured for $9K when it was sent from Hong Kong. All I'm saying is the guy is gouging on the mailing end of it.

Hello!my friends,
That is my 16x20 camera.
1/This is a great camera.light and strong.I can shoot pictures in mountain because it is very light camera.I can not put the 16x20 Wisner on my tripod by myself. I used Cooke 390mm f/5.6 lens on this camera for portrait,as you know how much weight the lens is.6 pound weight.
2/After packing,it will be very big package for 16x20 camera.In China,the shipping cost(express air mail) of large package is calculated via cubage of the package.In evidence,Mamiya and 3 lense will be a small package.The another 16x20 metal camera was sold to USA before,the express air mail shipping cost was $600.
3/The camera is very easy to fold up,just like Phillips.
4/I am a honesty person.most Chinese people are honesty.I do not want to deceive anybody,I just want to sell my camera to a person who loves photography.
5/I am very glad to answer your question.
Thank you!every one.