China copies of Jobo Products

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 12, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
I sure got some smug revenge when a local manufacturer of big automated industrial drill press/milling machines came in here and didn't want to pay
for a US made machinist's caliper. He was having problems with the a key component made in China being out of specification and not fitting. So he
was going to fly there personally with his own caliper, which he obviously didn't buy from me since I sell US-made. He also needed his parts shipped very quickly because he was already behind on standing orders. Then, out of the 600 of thse parts that came in, only two fit. So he was out around $20,000 for skimping a fifty bucks on a caliper, and lost several million in sales due to it. That's what I call smart! And he did it all by himself. Usually you have to hire an MBA when you intend to do something really stupid really efficiently.

I agree with your point. Like I said, there are companies for every budget. If you want to skimp and are ready to take the chances, then go ahead. Like you said, he took the risk and lost several millions.

I dont think the quality problems arent inherent to China; they just happen to be ready to sell you what you are looking for. If you are looking for the cheapest, non tested no warranty goods, they can sell it to you. If you want some top of the line equipment, they can provide it too (Apple products, as far as I know are made on China and everyone is happy about their quality).

Regards.

Sirius Glass · Dec 12, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
... Then, out of the 600 of those parts that came in, only two fit. So he was out around $20,000 for skimping a fifty bucks on a caliper, and lost several million in sales due to it. That's what I call smart! And he did it all by himself. Usually you have to hire an MBA when you intend to do something really stupid really efficiently.

Politicians are also quite good at stupid inefficiency.

DREW WILEY · Dec 12, 2016

Yes, in fairness it is the cynical attitude of our big box stores that mandates low quality Chinese goods. Some things are falsely labeled, some are hazardous, some are useless; but if they can establish a monopoly on a given category by either effective takeover of US companies or driving them out of business outright, they can do pretty much as they please. It's an utterly different culture than 30 years ago, back when people had pride in their product and still a few molecules of patriotism left in their blood. The problem is really endemic to publicly traded companies which use all kinds of smoke and mirrors tricks to show a quarterly gain. Privately held corporations do much better because they have sustainable long-term goals.
It's tricky, real tricky to develop your own crystal ball to decipher specific product trends. Too many buyouts, hostile takeovers, vulture capitalism.
And I'm sick of dealing with it.

DREW WILEY · Dec 12, 2016

Let me amend your comment a bit, Sirius... Politicians are extremely competent and professional at proving the old adage that a sucker is born
every day, and that you can fool some of the people all of the time. And they have the money to prove it - we don't!

Chan Tran · Dec 12, 2016

How do you know that they are counterfeit? They could be genuine JOBO made in China. JOBO could have the plant there or more likely contract a Chinese company to make the drums for them.

mshchem · Dec 12, 2016

Chan Tran said:
How do you know that they are counterfeit? They could be genuine JOBO made in China. JOBO could have the plant there or more likely contract a Chinese company to make the drums for them.

There not Counterfeit, they are what APPEAR to be very good LOOKING copies. There are none for sale right now on Ebay in the US. Jobo makes all of there reels in Germany, a very small company. Jobo owns the injection molding and thermoforming tools. I imagine when Jobo needs product they contract an injection molding shop to run their parts. Jobo has been making these beautiful tanks and reels for decades, Jobo has created this entire system from scratch.
I don't care if the patent has expired, this is just a cheap knock off that should be clearly labeled as such. The communist USSR tried to copy Leica, Hasselblad and others it was all junk.
This isn't about CHINA, everybody does it. However I would say it is hard for me to think of any country that can do this better than China. It is tolerated by the authorities, Period.

I will pass on what looks too good to be true everytime
Best Wishes, Mike

Photo Engineer · Dec 12, 2016

Mschem, should I assume that you are not in the USA due to your poor spelling and punctuation?

JK.

PE

AgX · Dec 13, 2016

mshchem said:
Jobo makes all of these reels in Germany,..

How do you know?

DREW WILEY · Dec 13, 2016

Thermoplastic fabrication is something the Chinese excel at. But right here in the SF Bay area I could probably find at least half a dozen plastic fabricators who could replicate anyt Jobo drum. It's just thin ABS.

mshchem · Dec 13, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Mschem, should I assume that you are not in the USA due to your poor spelling and punctuation?

JK.

PE

Yes

mshchem · Dec 13, 2016

AgX said:
How do you know?

I know everything

mshchem · Dec 13, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
Thermoplastic fabrication is something the Chinese excel at. But right here in the SF Bay area I could probably find at least half a dozen plastic fabricators who could replicate anyt Jobo drum. It's just thin ABS.

The only thermoformed part is the trough of the processor . Everything else is injection molding .

mshchem · Dec 13, 2016

Seems like it's just a futile discussion . There's some of these reels for sale now on the E. They almost look printed and flame polished I'm done .

DREW WILEY · Dec 13, 2016

No difference. It's elementary these days. What the Chinese are behind at is metal fabrication. They offer products cheaply by avoiding the cost of making true dies, so metal fatigue sets in very quickly. Apples to apples, a particular US machine might last twenty years, while the visual Chinese
clone fails within six months and is therefore realistically classified as expendable rather than repairable. My joke is that you could go into competition with the Chinese if you had a Dremel 3D printer and a stack of gum wrappers.

mshchem · Dec 13, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
No difference. It's elementary these days. What the Chinese are behind at is metal fabrication. They offer products cheaply by avoiding the cost of making true dies, so metal fatigue sets in very quickly. Apples to apples, a particular US machine might last twenty years, while the visual Chinese
clone fails within six months and is therefore realistically classified as expendable rather than repairable. My joke is that you could go into competition with the Chinese if you had a Dremel 3D printer and a stack of gum wrappers.

Agreed!

AgX · Dec 13, 2016

I got curious and finally would like to see that fake drum.

mshchem · Dec 13, 2016

AgX said:
I got curious and finally would like to see that fake drum.

No fake drum look at 2509 reel that says made in China.

DREW WILEY · Dec 13, 2016

One more reason to scrub the hell out of any new drum.

AgX · Dec 13, 2016

mshchem said:
No fake drum look at 2509 reel that says made in China.

What I meant with "fake" was "stated by the seller to be a Jobo one".
That is what you said and why you started that whole thread.

But still I have not seen a link to such faking offer.

adelorenzo · Dec 13, 2016

OK, here is a link so people can draw their own conclusions : http://m.ebay.ca/itm/2509N-for-jobo...-without-9x12-panels-/112235015607?nav=SEARCH

AgX · Dec 13, 2016

Thank You!

mshchem · Dec 13, 2016

AgX said:
What I meant with "fake" was "stated by the seller to be a Jobo one".
That is what you said and why you started that whole thread.

But still I have not seen a link to such faking offer.

Read my original post I never said fake I said copy and "counterfeit " I have proven that I'm not an expert at punctuation but in the US we make a gesture with our fingers to suggest quotation marks . So by putting " " around counterfeit I was intending to imply they were well you know, the real McCoy , wink wink, say no more . It's a Dusey ! No not counterfeit but you know "counterfeit " catch my drift ?

DREW WILEY · Dec 14, 2016

The listing outright says it's a drum "for" the Jobo system, not a Jobo brand drum. Otherwise, it wouldn't even be shipping directly from China. So yes, it is a counterfeit or clone or whatever. Possibly also a patent violation.

AgX · Dec 14, 2016

What patent?
See post # 11

DREW WILEY · Dec 14, 2016

Patents get renewed and re-tweaked. I don't know what specifically applies in this instance. What I do know is that the Chinese routinely violate patents.

China copies of Jobo Products

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