Chemistry recommendations needed

Getting back into the darkroom after 20 years and need some chemistry recommendations. Looking for easy to use b&w film developer and paper dev, stop and fixer.

I'm sorta settled on Agfa Rodinal for film.

Thanks.

Try Stand dev with rodinal 1:200 for 2.5H.
Paper dev: ilford PQ universal or multigrade dev
Stop: some people use water, but i use ilfostop.
Fixer: Ilford Rapid fix, or fx universal, which comes from agfa, i just bought a 5 L bottle of it.
If you dont like grain a lot, try kodak hc110 for higher speed films.
Welcome to apug!

Thanks!

How much effect does the fixer have on the finished image?

All the same image with diffrent fixes if used properly. ilford rapid fix 1-4 clears film in 20 secs. if you use pyro devs, dont use a stop bath or a hardening fixer.
you only need hardener for really soft emulsions eg EFKE.
Good luck!

I am not sure why marko recommended a 2.5 hour film developer but I easily recommend Ilford's ID-11 film developer. It mixes 1 to 1 and the developing times are typically between 9 and 13 minutes.

As for paper chemicals, I again recommend Ilford products for the ease of use and availability.

Go to www.ilfordphoto.com for some reading materials.

If you're in the USA - forget Ilford and go for the Photographer's Formulary.

Not long ago I would have suggested Ilford or Kodak for there wide-scale availability. While that may still be true, photographic chemicals are not flying off the shelves these days and it is difficult to be assured that purchased items are within their shelf lives.

If you're settled on Rodinal, The Photographer's Formulary sells the orginal formula (over the last few decades Agfa itself deviated from this formula). They also sell Stop Baths, Fixers, and Toners.

So why not go with:

- FORMULARY PARAMINOPHENOL (Rodinal) FILM DEVELOPER
- FORMULARY INDICATOR STOP BATH (for prints, and film)
- FORMULARY RAPID FIX WITH HARDENER

The Formulary's stock turns over fairly rapidly and their are rarely problems.

The only area where I might be tempted to bypass the Formulary would be in the area of paper developers, as their offering are quite expensive. I would highly advise that you choose a paper developer that is mixed from powder, as the shelf life of many paper developers sold as liquid stock solutions is poor. Ilford and Kodak both manufacture them.

While I like and use the Formulary, there is no danger in buying Ilford or Kodak chemistry if it is in powdered form. There are plenty of dealers (Freestyle and B&H come to mind) that do enough black and white business that they go through the liquid chemicals pretty quickly, too. Powder is, however, a safer bet as it has a very long shelf life. Ilford's is a little better because some of the ingredients are segregated from each other; it's a little more work to mix but not that big of a bother.

Here is what I would recommend to a beginner:

Film developer: Kodak D-76 or Ilford ID-11 (more or less identical) - I like Rodinal but it is grainier than many developers and is best used on slow films, or large formats. (One advantage of Rodinal by the way: even though it's a liquid, it lasts for years.)

Paper developer: There are many but the most common is Kodak Dektol. It is an excellent developer. A very good substitute (and preferable to me) is Ilford Bromophen. It is somewhat harder to find but works much the same way. It uses Phenidone instead of metol so it is a little friendlier to the skin (metol can cause allergic reactions in some people.) Functionally it is very similar to Dektol. It also comes in metric measurements which I prefer, and dilutes 1:3 for normal use versus 1:2 for Dektol (although some use Dektol 1:3 and extend development). I recommend that you try both and use the one that you prefer. Some will recommend a liquid concentrate such as Ilford Multigrade, which is a good chemical, but powders are less expensive (you don't pay to ship the water) and last longer when stored (you can keep powders for years; liquid concentrate is good for a year or two at most, and usually less once opened).

Stop bath: Any. I have traditionally used Kodak's which is acetic acid and smells like vinegar (vinegar is dilute acetic acid, so it doesn't smell like vinegar, it more or less is hyper-strong vinegar. ) Ilford's uses citric acid so it doesn't create as much working solution for a given volume of stock solution, but it is also a lot easier on the nose. I use a one-minute running water wash on film but I still use a stop bath with paper.

Fixer: Let's keep it simple. Use an ammonium thiosulfate rapid fixer. These almost universally come as liquids. Powdered fixers are almost always sodium thiosulfate. Ilford's rapid fix is good and it is what I usually use for paper. Kodak's is also good but it comes in US measurements and since I mix in metric, I always end up with weird amounts left at the end, so I use the Ilford instead. Operationally they are almost identical.

If you are printing on fibre paper, you will want to use a wash aid or hypo clearing agent. Kodak's is fine and comes as a powder. Ilford's comes as a liquid so it has a shelf life, but the stock solution lasts longer than the Kodak stock solution after you mix it from powder. Both are good.

Once you've been doing this awhile I would have different answers for you, but it is hard to go wrong with these chemicals as a starting point.

david b said:

I am not sure why marko recommended a 2.5 hour film developer but I easily recommend Ilford's ID-11 film developer. It mixes 1 to 1 and the developing times are typically between 9 and 13 minutes.

As for paper chemicals, I again recommend Ilford products for the ease of use and availability.

Go to www.ilfordphoto.com for some reading materials.

Click to expand...

I also reccomended hc110. He might want to try stand deving

As a MPW alumnus, I've always been partial to the Sprint family of photographic chemicals (chemistry is a branch of science, btw). I don't use their developer, but I use everything else, including stop bath, fixer and fixer remover.

They're all liquid, they all mix 1:9, and they are different colors, so it's easy to tell what you're about to pour.

B&H Photo carries the full line.

Try Rodinal @ 1:50 but double the recommended development time & agitate gently for 15 seconds initially followed by 15 seconds every 5 minutes - this is an old method which was recommended by Don Cardwell and which works superbly well on nearly any film & with many developers.

Good Luck!

Lachlan

For the common stuff, I have always found the Formulary TF-4 fixer to be easy to work with and low odor. I use water for a stop, and no HCA (due to the TF-4).

As for developers, I would go with the suggestions for a well know paper developer to start with but the process is fairly straight forward on the paper side so you may want to consider a pre-mixed developer like Ilford's Cooltone or Warmtone if you are looking for a specific tone, or the Formulary's version of Ansco 130, all of which come pre-mixed and are easy to work with.

I'm a bit confused by your film (developer) statement; are you using Rodinal (developer) or Agfa film in general? For Rodinal, you can get various versions of it now, including the latest Agfa version - another company makes it but it still uses the Agfa Rodinal formula. I use it as my primary developer but I use slower films for the most part. If you want something middle of the road and easy to use, try ID-11/D-76 to start, then look at your work, decide what you would change as far as results, and ask again about which developers might get you there. I would also suggest reading 'The Film Developing Cookbook' to get an idea of what *types* of developers there are, what results you can expect from each, and which *specific* developers fall into those categories.

I find liquid products easier to use and skipping the acid stop and HCA cuts down on the number of bottles needed as well as the cost, which you can divert to buying more film and paper (or cameras).

- Randy

I would keep it simple, especially if you are just getting back into darkroom work. I would try to use liquids whenever possible and buy smaller volumes until you settle on what you like. For example, I used liquid Edwal Ultrablack paper developer until I settled on Zone VI (powder) paper developer because is is much cheaper, lasts longer, and looks about the same.

I mostly use:

Film Developer - Kodak TMAX RS
Paper Developer - Zone VI
Stop - Kodak indicator stop
Film Fixer - Heico NH-5 with hardener
Paper fixer - Iford Hypam (the cheapest rapid fixer where I live)
Wash aid - Heico Permawash
Selenium Toner - Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner

Forgive me if it is buried in this thread ... What size film are you using? how much will you enlarge it and what speed film did you plan to use..... oh yeh - and what kind of contrast ranges will you be shooting?

It all changes the choices for me.
For the easy part ... Paper - RC paper is the easiest to use and the cheapest. Almost any kind will do - I bought 800 sheets of 8x10 on e-bay for pennies a sheet. Developer - If you are willing to "roll your own" order your chemicals off the net - PC TEA is great for paper because it is mostly vitamin C and the formulas and directions for use are easily found on this site with a search - go the the formulas section.

Now I have to make assumptions:
You are using 35mm film and expect to enlarge it to 8x10. As good as Rodinal (p-aminaphenol) is ... I am cooking some right now as I post this, It is not really suitable for 35mm enlargements unless you like the look of grain - I use it for 4x5 and MF. I would not use it for cute little films. For 35mm it is hard to beat either D-76 (not my first choice but a good choice none the less) or XTOL - my first choice! - Also on a type of Vitamin C compound, it is safer and will give great sharpness with very smooth grain for enlarging. There is a formula on this site for "Mytol" - Use it like Xtol - i get my vitamin C from Trader Joes down the street.

Every one has their pet that contributes to the look of their art. I am no different. I have shared a few of my "pets" but there is even a simpler way. Split d-23 mixes quick and cheap - you can do a lot of film in the stock solution, it has really good results (considering) and it is hard to screw it up. Bath A for about 4 mimutes and bath B for about the same - temp is not really important- sort of a quick and dirty do-all for film. Again - formula and instructions are on this site.

If you buy your chems at the local store - you likely have very few choices - so that makes it easy. I like to make my own - that is me though.

Oh - yeh - Stop bath - I don't use it unless I am using a paper developer that can stain - like Amidol - even then, I mix it weak. [stop bath can make your emulsion bubble due to the infusion of acid into the film or paper right after soaking it in a strong base - my paper developer has a ph of 10 when fresh] And for fixer - TF3 - cheap to make - is fast and does a great job- Fixers usually don't effect the image on the negative but using TF3, which has a ph of 8 when fresh, will fully fix film in 30 seconds (use 3 min as your time though) and leaves your negs (and paper) archivable with a much shorter wash. It is also less harsh on the stain if you do use a staining developer like p-aminophenol or pyro.

See how complex this can get?

You will probably be as crazy as we are in due course, but I still think the basics that I suggested earlier are the best starting point for everyone. Learn those chemicals, and then learn what you like and don't like about them. Branch out from there based on your need.

Even after all these years, I still use Dektol and Bromophen occasionally, and I used D-76 just a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks for all the advice.

By the way, what happens if you use multigrade paper and don't have multigrade filters? i.e. you're too poor to buy a set? Is there a "default" grade?

it is grade 2. i used it without filters and most of my negs print on grade 2.

die,
there is a default grade; and most folks think it is a grade 2, however, if you make a print without a filter, and then make the same print with a grade 2 filter, a dollar will get you a donut they won't look alike.

At least in our lab that is true.

Some photographers will not use Rodinal on "cute little negatives", but that is by no means a hard and fast, set in stone rule. A "classic" combination from the past was Plus-X developed in Rodinal - yes, 35mm.

There ARE no hard and fast rules. In time, from experience, and probably a healthy (or, not so...) infusion of superstition, one develops preferences... and from what I have seen most are devoid of reason.

I have a whole lot of 35mm Plus-X and TMax 100 and Agfapan 100 - and gasp!!, Agfapan 400, done in Rodinal, including a number of Agfapan 400 35mm negative enlarged to 16 x 20" - and no - I am not a "grain freak", although I'll use a grain screen for exactly that effect, from time to time.

Eventually ... try it! There is very little chance of an explosion - and you might just LIKE the results.

Arista?

I am new to developing and I decided to start simple...I got Arista chemistry from Freestyle. I use their Universal Fixer and indicator stop bath...simple and cheap. For developers I got Rodinal R09 (for slow films) and Kodak D76 for medium speed. I have seen Xtol recommended by a lot of people but I have not tried it yet (wish it came in smaller amounts!)

On a side question:

Lachlan...do you think your recommendation would also work with R09?...THanks!

Nancy

Lachlan Young said:

Try Rodinal @ 1:50 but double the recommended development time & agitate gently for 15 seconds initially followed by 15 seconds every 5 minutes - this is an old method which was recommended by Don Cardwell and which works superbly well on nearly any film & with many developers.

Good Luck!

Lachlan

Click to expand...

Things haven't changed that much in 20 years. Tri-X is a little better, Plus-X a little worse; TMax is barely newer than 20 years; and papers are more confusing, with most major brands gone. For chemicals, things haven't changed much at all. What you used then will still work now, although you may have to relearn some technique. For film, D-76 is still old reliable, although you may want to look into some of the newer concoctions like PMK and Pyrocat-HD. Dektol still works for papers, although the Ilford Warmtone and Cooltone developers are certainly interesting, particularly with Ilford papers.

seadrive said:

As a MPW alumnus, I've always been partial to the Sprint family of photographic chemicals (chemistry is a branch of science, btw). I don't use their developer, but I use everything else, including stop bath, fixer and fixer remover.

They're all liquid, they all mix 1:9, and they are different colors, so it's easy to tell what you're about to pour.

B&H Photo carries the full line.

Click to expand...

i would also recommend sprint chemistry.
the film developer is a metol free clone of d76/id-11 - and it works very well, and keeps very well. their fix is rapid, and contains no hardener ( you can buy that separately ) their paper developer is very good too.

nice thing about sprint chemistry is that is it a "system" --- when the stop bath indicates IT is shot, the developer and fix are shot too.

and mmm some of the chemicals smell like vanilia

if you have trouble with their chemicals, they have a tech support line/email, and they are very good at responding ...

have fun

john

DieHipsterDie said:

By the way, what happens if you use multigrade paper and don't have multigrade filters? i.e. you're too poor to buy a set? Is there a "default" grade?

Click to expand...

It depends on the exact frequencies of light your bulb puts out. As others have said, you'll probably get something close to grade 2, but it may vary a bit. Also, this depends on your enlarger. Some enlargers have built-in filters. Mostly these are sold as color models, but you can use the magenta and yellow filters to control the contrast with multigrade papers. If you haven't yet bought an enlarger, consider getting a color model even if you don't plan to enlarge color photos, just for the built-in filters.

Thanks y'all. I'm going to start with Kodak Dektol and D-76, Arista stop bath and Arista Arifix fixer. I'm also going to try Photographer's Formulary Rodinal mix. And my wife insists on trying Diafine. So I guess I'll get that too.

Or I'll try Photographer's Formulary's D-76.

If you are going to order from Freestyle why not just buy the real Rodinal from them?