Chemicals and Paper Advice Needed

I am procrastinating on going outside to finish cutting the grass so I've decided to come get advice and clarification on chemicals and paper.

I think I am going to make my HP4 my main film but still experimenting with PanF and Delta 3200.

Developer: Ilford DD-X or Ilford 3...still not sure on this. They look like they do the same thing but DD-X lasts longer. Should I mix a liter of this stuff at a time or mix for what I am doing at the moment?

Stop Bath: IlfoStop

Fixer: Ilford Rapid Fixer

Wash: Ilford Universal Wash Aid

and finally Photo-Flo

Is it better to mix the chemicals beforehand or mix them as needed?

In the beginning I will use whatever 8x10 paper is the cheapest so I can just practice. I will use Ilford Mutligrade Developer.

For some things, like concentrated liquid developers, it is best to mix just as much as you need each time.
Stop bath should be used once and discarded, unless you are going to be doing more with it the same or next day, in which case you can keep it and re-use it.
Fixer should be mixed and re-used. Keep track of use as compared to the manufacturer's capacity recommendations, and check regularly with a clip test. Filter if necessary. When it has reached capacity, it should be recycled at an appropriate facility that extracts the silver (if possible).
Wash-aid is used and discarded. Mix just what you need, unless you have a bunch to do over a short time, in which case you can re-use during that time (check manufacturer's capacity recommendations).
Photo-Flo is used and discarded. Mix just what you need, unless you have a bunch to do over a short time, in which case you can re-use during that time.
Where I have referred to re-using something, it means re-using it with the same material. As an example, once you use fixer with film, you only re-use that batch with film. Once you use fixer with paper, you only re-use that batch with paper.
There are a couple of more refinements I could mention (developer replenishment and my special purpose approach to making a Photo-Flo stock solution) but save that for now.
Have fun!

Hubigpielover said:

I think I am going to make my HP4 my main film but still experimenting with PanF and Delta 3200.

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Any HP4 is likely well fogged by now

I'd stick to FP4 when you can and HP5 on dull days where you need a faster shutter speed.

Ian

The developer doesn't age gracefully when it's mixed, especially in a partially filled container. Liquids are nice
because you only have to mix what you're going to use. With that, I'll usually mix what I'm going to use. Did I
say liquids are nice?

Dear Hubigpielover,

Your choices are fine. HP5+ will give you the broadest range of use and has a pleasant smooth grain. Follow the manufacturer's instructions as closely as you can to start with. You will find from the responses that there are many ways to skin this cat and get good results. Personally, I re-use stop bath and fixer until they are exhausted. All my film developer use is one-shot but I find paper developer can be used for quite some time as well. As I must take all my used chemicals to a disposal site, using them as fully as I can is an advantage.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

Neal said:

Personally, I re-use stop bath

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If you are going to re-use stop bath, the more smelly acetic acid based stop bath (Kodak et al) is a better bet than the citric acid based stop bath (Ilford et al) because acetic acid tends to prevent mould growth, while citric acid tends to promote it.

I use both film and paper developers as one-shot use, and mix just prior to use. I haven't used an acid stop bath for many, many years. Fixer is the only chemical I'll pour back into the bottle and re-use. IMO, the fresher you keep all your chemicals the more consistent will be your results. Whatever you decide, you can't really go wrong with the choices you've listed; though, as Ian said, HP4 would have to be pretty fogged by now.

MattKing said:

Photo-Flo is used and discarded

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MattKing said:

you have a bunch to do over a short time

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John Koehrer said:

Liquids are nice
because you only have to mix what you're going to use.

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I've noticed some people recommend using this with RC and Fiber paper and some don't. What is your opinion? My plan is to get a 25 pack of RC paper and go through it in a weekend. Basically dialing in my dichro head. Kentmere paper is awesome for including the adjustments for dichro heads but it doesn't have mine. I did order those manuals so hopefully it will have it.

Ian Grant said:

Any HP4 is likely well fogged by now

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Ian Grant said:

Any HP4 is likely well fogged by now

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Hey, I know a guy...lol. Of all the films I wish would come back it would have to be Efke.

I am interest to try the new Bergger film.

John Koehrer said:

Liquids are nice
because you only have to mix what you're going to use.

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That was my thought..plus storage space and what not.

Thanks everyone go Bucs!

There is no reason to use Photo-flo (or any other wetting agent) with prints - RC or FB.
There is reason to use a wash aid like HCA or Ilford wash aid with FB prints.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone recommend using a wash aid with RC prints.

MattKing said:

There is no reason to use Photo-flo (or any other wetting agent) with prints - RC or FB.
There is reason to use a wash aid like HCA or Ilford wash aid with FB prints.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone recommend using a wash aid with RC prints.

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Probably misread it. I'm better at hands on. Thanks Matt

I should also say that I am open to suggestions on different developers.

Hubigpielover said:

I should also say that I am open to suggestions on different developers.

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There's no better basic paper developer (in my experience) than Liquidol, formulated by our own PE. It's Dektol-like, but has really rich blacks and amazing tray life. It's a liquid concentrate so no need to mix a big jug of stock solution, just mix what you need for a tray. After a session, bottle it up and it can last weeks or even months. Do a quick test strip (just expose some paper to room light) and if it's not delivering max blacks, splash a bit more concentrate in. I've gotten great prints with bottled up tray solution that was so old, it had mold floating in it. The stuff is amazing. Available at the Formulary.

M Carter said:

There's no better basic paper developer (in my experience) than Liquidol, formulated by our own PE. It's Dektol-like, but has really rich blacks and amazing tray life. It's a liquid concentrate so no need to mix a big jug of stock solution, just mix what you need for a tray. After a session, bottle it up and it can last weeks or even months. Do a quick test strip (just expose some paper to room light) and if it's not delivering max blacks, splash a bit more concentrate in. I've gotten great prints with bottled up tray solution that was so old, it had mold floating in it. The stuff is amazing. Available at the Formulary.

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It needs to be idiot proof.

T

M Carter said:

There's no better basic paper developer (in my experience) than Liquidol, formulated by our own PE. It's Dektol-like, but has really rich blacks and amazing tray life. It's a liquid concentrate so no need to mix a big jug of stock solution, just mix what you need for a tray. After a session, bottle it up and it can last weeks or even months. Do a quick test strip (just expose some paper to room light) and if it's not delivering max blacks, splash a bit more concentrate in. I've gotten great prints with bottled up tray solution that was so old, it had mold floating in it. The stuff is amazing. Available at the Formulary.

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The more I read up on it the greater it looks. Do you use the other Formulary products to make prints? Mix an watch other products? Thanks for the suggestion.

Hubigpielover said:

It needs to be idiot proof.

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It's about as idiot proof as paper dev can be. Much simpler than mixing a big jug of Dektol and then reducing that for the tray. You mix it 1+9, and the ratio isn't super important - it can work as a low contrast developer when more dilute, though I haven't needed that. I do mostly lith these days so paper devs are for testing or the occasional Bromoil print.

Hubigpielover said:

T
The more I read up on it the greater it looks. Do you use the other Formulary products to make prints? Mix an watch other products? Thanks for the suggestion.

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Let's see - I use their Residual Hypo Test, easiest way to see if you've washed a print enough. Printing without it is either guessing or wasting a lot of water and if you print fiber, I simply can't recommend it enough. I use Ilford fix, sometimes TF4 (or 5?), I mix my own HCA (sodium sulphite and table salt, cheap stuff). For lith printing (most of my work) I use Arista or LD-20, for film dev it's pretty much Rodinal, so I get most of my chems from Freestyle. I mostly shoot Fuji Acros 120, and HP5+ in my older cameras (Hawkeye and Isolette 6x6). Don't shoot much 35 at all, I like having a big neg and am getting into masking so 35 is pretty much out for that anyway.

I think most people "mix & match" - stop bath is stop bath, Photoflo lasts forever, and Ilford fix I can grab locally. I do use DD-X if I'm pushing HP5+ or if I want to shoot Delta, it's impressive for holding shadow detail, but I really like what Rodinal does to a neg - it just seems to add some "mojo" to the shot, and really seems to marry up to lith printing really well.

I use Kodak Polymax T as my print developer. Compared to Liquidol, it is slightly easier for me to get it, and a fair bit cheaper. As far as ease of use, it is similar - liquid, 1+9 concentrate, convenient packaging.
There is at least a reference on the data sheet to use at 80F. EDIT: (with 68F being recommended, but 80F being at the top end of the usability range)

M Carter said:

I think most people "mix & match" - stop bath is stop bath, Photoflo lasts forever, and Ilford fix I can grab locally. I do use DD-X if I'm pushing HP5+ or if I want to shoot Delta, it's impressive for holding shadow detail, but I really like what Rodinal does to a neg - it just seems to add some "mojo" to the shot, and really seems to marry up to lith printing really well.

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I've heard a lot of good things about Rodinal and it is cheap. I'm pretty much shooting in the dark when it comes to this. I know what I want the final result to be but unfortunately I do not have a lot of money to experiment. I need to marry rich.

MattKing said:

I use Kodak Polymax T as my print developer. Compared to Liquidol, it is slightly easier for me to get it, and a fair bit cheaper. As far as ease of use, it is similar - liquid, 1+9 concentrate, convenient packaging.
There is at least a reference on the data sheet to use at 80F.

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It might be easier to get my temp up more than down. My tap water at 11pm is 76 F.

Thanks y'all.

Hubigpielover said:

It might be easier to get my temp up more than down. My tap water at 11pm is 76 F.

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Sorry, I wasn't clear.
I should have said "there is at least a reference to use at temperatures between 68-70F and 80F"

HP5 is my main film in large format. Developers that I have used with it and really like are Xtol 1+1, Rodinal 1+25, Pyrocat-HD.

MattKing said:

There is no reason to use Photo-flo (or any other wetting agent) with prints - RC or FB.
There is reason to use a wash aid like HCA or Ilford wash aid with FB prints.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone recommend using a wash aid with RC prints.

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Photflo can actually cause problems if used with RC papers, it helps water to penetrate the cut edges of the Paper component of the RC base particularly if prints are washed for too long.

Ian

Hubigpielover said:

I've heard a lot of good things about Rodinal and it is cheap.
It might be easier to get my temp up more than down. My tap water at 11pm is 76 F.

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I'm very fond of it, I tried HC110 which has similar qualities (cheap syrup that lasts forever, compensating) but the negs just looked kinda ho-hum to me.

Rodinal is interesting in that you can control how it renders mid tones ("the curve" as people say here). 1+25 for x-time and you get less low-mid detail, the shadows roll off into black higher up the curve into the low mids.... but I find that can look nice on faces, it brings facial details, eyes, eyebrows into more prominence and can help out a flat scene - kinda drama-boosting. 1+50 or 60, the lower mids are more open (and grain drops a bit). So I can tweak development by ratio or time, it's pretty cool.

I'm in Dallas and when it's time to develop film, I stick a pitcher of distilled in the fridge and use it to mix my developer to 20° - it's easier than an ice-bath for your graduate. I prewash my film at 20° which I feel helps stabilize temperature, the film and reel and tank are all at temp when the dev goes in.