Chemical Reaction, Sampling Concentrations by Same time but from Many Locations

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 13, 2014

I am reading an general book on probability and I want to ask

- If we do sample from 2 different locations at a chemical reaction in a developer tank at same time , do these two samples have same or different concentrations ?

Umut

Rich Ullsmith · Nov 13, 2014

It would appear that if you are developing a film that is not of uniform exposure densities, yes the concentrations will differ locally depending the rate of developer exhaustion. Thus the need for agitation.

As a probability question, I think Heisenberg's uncertainty applies. I guess it's possible for molecules in solution to congregate at a specific time an location, the same way that it is possible to walk through a brick wall, if only the electrons would line up accordingly. Not very likely.

Then there's the "same time" component . . .at the molecular level it is not easy to define "simultaneous." See, this is what happens when you read books about probability.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 13, 2014

Hello Rich, thank you for your answer.

I think there are not one but two variables as you know.

One everything differs on film in developer tank.
And everything differs in solutions every drop.

How one chemist can decide if everything dances with swing music

Do chemists uses probability or best guess or best final sweet spot in quantum mechanics statistics?

Do that best action, lower action, lowest action statistics appear as tones on film ?

ic-racer · Nov 13, 2014

Quanta and probabalistic effects are more important in nuclear chemistry. A lot of that nonsense can be ignored to understand organic and inorganic chemistry.

gleaf · Nov 13, 2014

There were some interesting papers concerning photographic plate processing for the spectrographic astronomy. Micro samples for GCMS analysis will be very local as the process is active in the gelatin layer. The active chemistry will be depleted adjacent to that surface. The bulk volume of the tank will trace a gradual depletion of the whole active chemistry. Bottom line by selecting your sample locations and tuning your agitation you will have to be very careful to not measure process point time differences rather than chemical process differences. Random timing will prevent time sensitive variations from hiding in a null or amplifying at a peak generated by synchronization with agitation or instance. A too large sample will become averaged by its own general volume draw, thus requiring a far more sensitive instrumentation for measurement. Such a wonderful two edged sword problem in technology. Happy exploration!

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Nov 13, 2014

gleaf said:
There were some interesting papers concerning photographic plate processing for the spectrographic astronomy. Micro samples for GCMS analysis will be very local as the process is active in the gelatin layer. The active chemistry will be depleted adjacent to that surface. The bulk volume of the tank will trace a gradual depletion of the whole active chemistry. Bottom line by selecting your sample locations and tuning your agitation you will have to be very careful to not measure process point time differences rather than chemical process differences. Random timing will prevent time sensitive variations from hiding in a null or amplifying at a peak generated by synchronization with agitation or instance. A too large sample will become averaged by its own general volume draw, thus requiring a far more sensitive instrumentation for measurement. Such a wonderful two edged sword problem in technology. Happy exploration!

I tried to locate subject papers but I could not find. I think there is a big plate and small planet spectrum on plate and careful process is important to make job easier. I want to learn what are process differences , how to calculate .

I think to able to do that could open to new possibilities but I want to learn what can that mean for us, ordinary photographers ?

I think is high precision correctness to record to scan. Our intention is to apply to our full frame film and what is the process differences makes differences for eye. May be even not visible ? May be is is measuring the heat by 1/100 ? I dont know.

Chemical Reaction, Sampling Concentrations by Same time but from Many Locations

Mustafa Umut Sarac

Rich Ullsmith

Mustafa Umut Sarac

ic-racer

gleaf

Mustafa Umut Sarac

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