Chemical questions about capacity (Moersch)

Jessestr · Apr 16, 2016

I have a few questions if any Moersch chemical users are around here.

I'm about 10 sheets of 30x40 papers and 10 sheets of 24x40 paper in process with my current chemicals. And since there's little to find about how much you can use them... I would love to know how many prints I can do with my dev, stop, fixer, hypo, selenium.

I mix up 2 liters of everything except hypo and selenium.

Moersch Eco Dev(2Liter): 1 + 15
Moersch Citron Stop(2Liters): 33ml (of 60% citron) / liter = so it's 2% on 2 liters
Moersch Alkaline Fixer(2Liters * 2 baths): 1+5 - 166ml / liter * 2 = 332 ml for one bath. I use 2 bath fixing, each 30 seconds
Moersch HypoCA Liquid(4Liters): 1+9
Moersch Selenium (1Liter): 1+19

So what I'm asking is what is the individual capacity in sheets of paper for these products at given dilutions per 2 liters.

Do I change my stop bath after my dev is exhausted? Or is there any rule how to check when stopper is exhausted? Should I make new one every session?
When do I change fixer? I'm going to buy those ag fix test strips... but don't have them right now. Is there a general rule when to renew? Since I need two baths.. and each 332ml.. it's quite a lot. Hope it lasts long.
I normally wash an hour (even though I use alkaline fixer) for my fiber paper. How long should I wash WITH and WITHOUT hypo? And how much sheets can this hypo handle?
For the selenium... I'm doing about 5-10 prints with 1 Liter at 1+19.. Is this correct?

Little to find about this and I don't want to overuse anything, neither I want to underuse anything and throw away perfect working chemicals.

Many thanks.

miha · Apr 16, 2016

Moersch 4812 keeps well and has great cap., I would save it for another session. Throw the stop away, keep the second fix bath. No idea about the HCA. Selenium keeps working and can be reused many times. Bear in mind it's a toxic chemical T+, wear nitrile gloves.

Jessestr · Apr 16, 2016

miha said:
Moersch 4812 keeps well and has great cap., I would save it for another session. Throw the stop away, keep the second fix bath. No idea about the HCA. Selenium keeps working and can be reused many times. Bear in mind it's a toxic chemical T+, wear nitrile gloves.

Thanks. Forgot to mention that I only do 2x 30x40 prints on a session.

Doremus Scudder · Apr 17, 2016

First, the obvious answer: Read the manufacturer's directions. Moersch has good documentation and has a web site with everything you need to know, You do have to invest your time a bit, but it's well worth it.

Some basics: Print developer is usually only good for a session or two as it degrades due to oxidation. Mix the minimum you need for a session if possible. I don't know what you mean by only doing two 30x40 prints a session (not 30x40 inches I imagine, but 30x40cm). Heck I can't even do test strips and trial prints and print one good print without using 4-5 sheets of paper...

Stop bath is good till it quits stopping prints. If you have an indicator stop bath, then it will turn color when exhausted. Non-indicator stops have capacity indications in throughput. Read the label/directions for this.

Fix also has throughput capacity. This is based on the quality of fixing you want, i.e., the permanence of the print. However, two-bath fixing should get you at least 30-35 20x24 cm fiber-base prints per liter of bath one. I assume you know the mechanics and methods relating to two-bath fixing. If not, get reading, here and elsewhere.

You should also know that fixer goes bad with time as well. Fix saved into a partially-full bottle will only last about a month. In an open tray you only have a week.

HypoCA and other wash aids oxidize rapidly and should only be used one-shot. Mix just what you need for the prints you make in one session. Read the label for the capacity.

Selenium toner is good till it stops toning your prints. At that point, you have two choices: 1. Be irresponsible and uneconomical and discard it down the drain (if you choose to do this, soak some scrap prints in the toner overnight to scavenge as much of the remaining selenium from solution as possible so you aren't pouring toxic selenium into the water-treatment system) or 2. replenish your toner with a bit of stock solution to re-activate it. Since your using 1+19 (for whatever reason) then I'd add a 25th part or so to your solution and then check to see how it works. If you still need more activity, then add a tiny bit more stock. You can replenish toner this way indefinitely as long as you filter it before and after your toning sessions (use filter paper or paper coffee filters). I have two bottles of toner that have been going for more than 10 years this way.

If you're not sure about the toxicity/safety of the chemicals you are using, then you shouldn't use them until your are. Again, read the labels or go to the website! Moersch products are well-documented.

Good luck,

Doremus

Jessestr · Apr 17, 2016

Doremus Scudder said:
First, the obvious answer: Read the manufacturer's directions. Moersch has good documentation and has a web site with everything you need to know, You do have to invest your time a bit, but it's well worth it.

Some basics: Print developer is usually only good for a session or two as it degrades due to oxidation. Mix the minimum you need for a session if possible. I don't know what you mean by only doing two 30x40 prints a session (not 30x40 inches I imagine, but 30x40cm). Heck I can't even do test strips and trial prints and print one good print without using 4-5 sheets of paper...

Stop bath is good till it quits stopping prints. If you have an indicator stop bath, then it will turn color when exhausted. Non-indicator stops have capacity indications in throughput. Read the label/directions for this.

Fix also has throughput capacity. This is based on the quality of fixing you want, i.e., the permanence of the print. However, two-bath fixing should get you at least 30-35 20x24 cm fiber-base prints per liter of bath one. I assume you know the mechanics and methods relating to two-bath fixing. If not, get reading, here and elsewhere.

You should also know that fixer goes bad with time as well. Fix saved into a partially-full bottle will only last about a month. In an open tray you only have a week.

HypoCA and other wash aids oxidize rapidly and should only be used one-shot. Mix just what you need for the prints you make in one session. Read the label for the capacity.

Selenium toner is good till it stops toning your prints. At that point, you have two choices: 1. Be irresponsible and uneconomical and discard it down the drain (if you choose to do this, soak some scrap prints in the toner overnight to scavenge as much of the remaining selenium from solution as possible so you aren't pouring toxic selenium into the water-treatment system) or 2. replenish your toner with a bit of stock solution to re-activate it. Since your using 1+19 (for whatever reason) then I'd add a 25th part or so to your solution and then check to see how it works. If you still need more activity, then add a tiny bit more stock. You can replenish toner this way indefinitely as long as you filter it before and after your toning sessions (use filter paper or paper coffee filters). I have two bottles of toner that have been going for more than 10 years this way.

If you're not sure about the toxicity/safety of the chemicals you are using, then you shouldn't use them until your are. Again, read the labels or go to the website! Moersch products are well-documented.

Good luck,

Doremus

Thanks for your answers, but the English version of the site is not so well documented. Nor the labels say anything about capacity. With two prints per session I mean = 2 final prints, without the test prints.
I never leave my chemicals in open trays. When I'm done, I store them in fully airtight bottles.

Also, with selenium toenr you cannot see the activity, so I'm not quite sure what you mean?

David Allen · Apr 17, 2016

Jessestr said:
Thanks for your answers, but the English version of the site is not so well documented. Nor the labels say anything about capacity. With two prints per session I mean = 2 final prints, without the test prints.
I never leave my chemicals in open trays. When I'm done, I store them in fully airtight bottles.

Also, with selenium toenr you cannot see the activity, so I'm not quite sure what you mean?

For Wolfgang Moersch's products the information is spread across the product information in the shop and the technical data sheets.

For example, his description of the Eco developer's capacity is: “The working solution has a shelf life of 8 months if stored in a bottle. The capacity per litre of stock solution is around 400 sheets of 24x30cm paper.”

As to Selenium toner, as Doremus stated, with replenishment and filtering it goes on forever. You certainly should see be able to see the activity because you judge the degree of toning by how you want the final print to look. In my rather ancient Selenium toner, the olive tone of Foma Variant III goes after about one minute and I usually get the depth of tone that I like at around 2.5 - 3.5 minutes. If the olive tone takes more than 1.5 minutes to disappear then I know it is time for replenishment.

As to the Alkaline fix, I have never used this myself. With acidic rapid fixer you can use the following rule of thumb:

If the manufacturer states that the capacity of one litre of fixer is 2 square metres of paper this will be good for general non-archival fixing. For what used to be called "fixing to professional standards" which meant the prints should last for 10 years you use half of the manufacturer's recommendation. In this example that would be 1 square metres. To meet archival standards of fixing, you use one quarter of the manufacturer's recommendation. So in this example that would be 0.5 square metres. This applies to a single fix bath approach. More capacity (even in terms of archival standards) can be achieved by using a two fix bath approach.

Wolfgang Moersch states that the fixing time for papers is 1-2 minutes at a dilution of 1+5 will have a capacity of 2-4 square metres.

One thing that you might want to consider is that 1 Litre of Moersch’s Alkaline Fixer costs 13€. If you switched to Fotoimpex’s own Adofix Rapid Fixer that would only cost you 22,61€ for 5 Litres. At that price you can afford to use 1 Litre per session on a one-shot basis.

One thing to note is that the life of Adox Adofix Rapid Fixer once opened is only 3 months. However, if you decant the 5 litres into 1 Litre or 0.5 Litre bottles, the life of the concentrate will be extended to more than a year.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Jessestr · Apr 20, 2016

David Allen said:
Wolfgang Moersch states that the fixing time for papers is 1-2 minutes at a dilution of 1+5 will have a capacity of 2-4 square metres.

That was what I'm after. So just to be sure. I can do 2-4 square meters of paper with 1 part fixer on 5 parts water?
I thought it was 2-4 square meters for the whole bottle of fixer... I found it quite few but that explains a lot.

Chemical questions about capacity (Moersch)

Jessestr

miha

Jessestr

Doremus Scudder

Jessestr

David Allen

Jessestr

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