Cheap rapid fixer? I'm willing to mix at home

[Jeff Bannow]

Just getting started in 12x20 and I've realized I need to work on my chemistry costs a bit. Each sheet of film is equivalent to 6 (!!!) rolls of film. (xray film is double sided). And, I'm mixing 2 gallons at a time for my tray processing.

So, currently I'm using TF-5 but I'm going to burn through that pretty quickly. Anyone got a recommendation for an odorless rapid fixer that I can get in bulk, or a cheap formula for some homebrew. I'm semi-comfortable with mixing my own chemistry, and I have access to a heated magnetic stirrer if that helps.

Or, am I being overly concerned with the costs? Maybe it's cheaper than I thought somehow?

Developer - Pyrocat-HD
Stop - Water stop

 

[Steve Goldstein]

I use Ryuji Suzuki's fixer, which is pretty simple. I don't have the formula here at work, will PM it to you tonight.

 

[MartinP]

The capacity of most rapid fixers is measured in dozens of roll-equivalents per litre of working solution. Even with two bath fixing this should not be too bad. The smallest packing you should look for is 5 litres or 10 litres. There are also possible economies to be found by using C41 fixer and/or by replenishing rapid-fixers.

Edit: From my quick arithmetic it seems that one can fix 600 sheets of 10x8" film in one 5Ltr pack of Ilford Rapid Fixer, unreplenished. So that would be a hundred of your double-sided 12x20". The cost over here (Europe) seems to be about $42 for this pack size, and it is by far not the cheapest rapid-fixer available.

 

[Pioneer]

From time to time I look at various fixer formulas but the chemical cost has so far been higher than what pre-mix costs.

I use the gallon jugs of Arista Universal Liquid Rapid Fixer from Freestyle. It mixes 1:4 for film and 1:9 for paper. I tend to use it once and dispose but by testing you can continue to use a batch until exhausted. It is the cheapest per roll of film that I have found so far but I'm sure there are others out there.

 

[Rudeofus]

You will notice that unless you buy raw chemicals by the metric ton, that the prices you get will be as high as the prices you pay for ready made fixers. Yes, you can make a very cheap quick fixer based on (there was a url link here which no longer exists) (assuming you have a very cheap source of Sodium Thiosulfate and Ammonium Chloride), but expect it to be no match in performance for TF-5 or any decent rapid fixer.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

Looks like I can get a 25 liters (working strength) of Ilford Hypam for about $50 shipped to my door. That would make 600 rolls of film, or about $0.50 per sheet of 12x20. That's not too bad I guess.

 

[rbender]

Jeff you might check Sprint Fixer and see how it compares to Ilford.

 

[bdial]

I bought 5 gallons of Kodak C-41 fix, working solution is about 7:1 from the concentrate.
I paid around $40 from my local camera shop, they added some on shipping but it wasn't a lot.
It comes in a huge cubetainer so it's pretty easy to deal with. You do need to buy a spigot though.

 

[MartinP]

Not forgetting, X-ray fixer. Maybe the place stocking the film also stocks the chemicals for processing it (probably via machine, but they work the same).

 

[newtorf]

I bought 1L Ilford rapid fixer. Dilute 100ml to 500ml (1:4). Fix two rolls of 135 36exp films in my 500ml development tank. Reuse the dilution for at least 12 times, no problem so far. So 100ml can fix at least 24-26 rolls of 136 36exp films. For the whole 1L fixer, it can fix at least 240-260 rolls of 135 36exp films, or 40 sheet of 12x20 films in your case. The cost is about $10. I am pretty sure it can fix more but I didn't try.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I did my calculations and I see savings of at least 60% mixing from scratch, but I will look the numbers over again.

QUOTE=Rudeofus;1535142]You will notice that unless you buy raw chemicals by the metric ton, that the prices you get will be as high as the prices you pay for ready made fixers. Yes, you can make a very cheap quick fixer based on (there was a url link here which no longer exists) (assuming you have a very cheap source of Sodium Thiosulfate and Ammonium Chloride), but expect it to be no match in performance for TF-5 or any decent rapid fixer.[/QUOTE]

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I did my calculations and I see savings of at least 60% mixing from scratch, but I will look the numbers over again.

Say Bob, which formula are you using?

Murray

 

[Bob Carnie]

I will have to dig it out, I am not using it yet and I am surprised by Rudeofus comment, I hope he/she is not right.

I use so much of the stuff, its the most expensive chemical I use and if I can save a few bucks each time I go into the darkroom its big for me.

Say Bob, which formula are you using?

Murray

 

[jp498]

TF5 should do quite a few pieces of film. Keep using it till it slows down.

 

[Rudeofus]

I did my calculations and I see savings of at least 60% mixing from scratch, but I will look the numbers over again.

You will notice that unless you buy raw chemicals by the metric ton, that the prices you get will be as high as the prices you pay for ready made fixers. Yes, you can make a very cheap quick fixer based on (there was a url link here which no longer exists) (assuming you have a very cheap source of Sodium Thiosulfate and Ammonium Chloride), but expect it to be no match in performance for TF-5 or any decent rapid fixer.

The numbers might work out differently for North America, but here in Central Europe I pay about 10€ per liter of Ammonium Thiosulfate 60% plus shipping. Compared to 25€ for a 5l canister of Rapid Fixer concentrate this doesn't sound like I can mix rapid fixer cheaper myself. I'd love to hear of a source of Ammonium Thiosulfate in EU region where I can save 60% on 5 Euros/liter ...

 

[Bob Carnie]

I will pull out my numbers and PM you my costs on Ammonium Thiosulfate, I think you may flip when you see them, I was wondering how you came up with your statement .. It sounds like you need to find another source in Europe. I am away visiting PE tommorrow and others at GEH, but when I get back I will dig them out and send you the numbers.

The numbers might work out differently for North America, but here in Central Europe I pay about 10€ per liter of Ammonium Thiosulfate 60% plus shipping. Compared to 25€ for a 5l canister of Rapid Fixer concentrate this doesn't sound like I can mix rapid fixer cheaper myself. I'd love to hear of a source of Ammonium Thiosulfate in EU region where I can save 60% on 5 Euros/liter ...

 

[Tom1956]

Look at this:
http://www.cxsonline.com/text/detai...ku=4005MF&cart=1376358363963235&location=1002

 

[nworth]

For some years now, I have been using Kodak F-34. It's about as cheap as fixer gets, and it seems to have good capacity. Although it was designed for color motion picture work, it is an excellent fixer for black and white films and prints.

Kodak F-34 non-hardening fixer
Water 700 ml
Ammonium thiosulfate (58%) 185 ml
Sodium sulfite 10 g
Sodium bisulfate 8.4 g
WTM 1 l
pH=6.5 at 27C; sp.gr. 1.08.
Fix 5247 (color negative) film 2 minutes at 100F.

A quick and dirty variation on this is to mix up the ammonium thiosulfate solution and then add a teaspoon each per liter of sodium sulfite and sodium metabisulfite. Not very exact, but it does the job.

Note that this is a non-hardening fixer (like TF-5). That is fine with most but not all modern films. The pH is high enough that it washes out easily.

 

[Barry S]

Does anyone have an inexpensive source for ammonium thiosulfate?

 

[Marco Buonocore]

Another vote for Sprint fixer. I get the 20 litre boxes with the wine bladder and spout. I dilute it 1:9 and fix for 4 min for fibre paper. It's much more economical that Ilford Rapid fix. By a long shot.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Commercial fixer is so cheap that there is no real economy in mixing your own except if you live where it is hard to obtain. Mixing you own developers however does make sense. The cost of chemicals depends on where you obtain them. It pays to shop around. Certain chemicals like sodium carbonate and sodium sulfite are often available from non-obvious sources at a much lower price. One professional photographer in Canada was getting sodium sulfite from a food service supplier very cheaply.

 

[Relayer]

Anyone got a recommendation for an odorless rapid fixer that I can get in bulk, or a cheap formula for some homebrew.
Developer - Pyrocat-HD
Stop - Water stop

Odourless rapid fixer must have acidic to neutral pH. Pyrocat-HD and other stain developer require neutral to alkali fixer pH. Good choice will be rapid fixer with slightly acidic pH in range 6-7. Some of my formula for rapid fixer without ammonium thiosulfate:

RF-4 neutral odourless rapid fixer
Sodium thiosulfate 200g
Ammonium chloride 80g
Sodium sulfite 10g
Sodium metabisulfite 3g
Water 1l
pH = 6.7

RF-7 acidic odourless rapid fixer
Sodium thiosulfate 200g
Ammonium chloride 80g
Sodium metabisulfite 8.5g
Water 1l
pH = 4.6

more research about rapid fixer without ammonium thiosulfate you can find in topic Rapid fixer without Ammonium thiosulfate