Cheap and Worth Rangefinder

Dinis Figueira · May 31, 2016

Hi guys,

I'm looking for a cheap but kinda good rangefinder for street and portrait photography.
I was looking for a Yashica 35 GSN or Minolta Hi-matic 7s but they are quite expensive in my country (Cleaned Minoltas are around 100€ and GSN's go up to 200€). Buying from ebay gets expensive too, since the package can be stopped when entering in my country and I may pay more for it.

So, what rangefinder's would you propose?
I don't have much experience with film, since I only have an Practica SLR and Instax.

Thank you.

cuthbert · May 31, 2016

Dinis Figueira said:
Hi guys,

I'm looking for a cheap but kinda good rangefinder for street and portrait photography.
I was looking for a Yashica 35 GSN or Minolta Hi-matic 7s but they are quite expensive in my country (Cleaned Minoltas are around 100€ and GSN's go up to 200€). Buying from ebay gets expensive too, since the package can be stopped when entering in my country and I may pay more for it.

So, what rangefinder's would you propose?
I don't have much experience with film, since I only have an Practica SLR and Instax.

Thank you.

Zorki 6 or Fed 2 in good working state if you can use the sunny 16 rule.

They are both nice Soviet designs and if in good conditions very capable with good lenses available.

Dinis Figueira · May 31, 2016

Zorki 6, in good conditions online get a bit higher on price.
I can find Fed 2 kinda cheap, but they only have advance film knobs right? The only model with lever is the Fed 3?

cuthbert · May 31, 2016

Dinis Figueira said:
Zorki 6, in good conditions online get a bit higher on price.
I can find Fed 2 kinda cheap, but they only have advance film knobs right? The only model with lever is the Fed 3?

Yes, but the late Fed2s have a enlarged knob like a Contax and it's comfortable to use, if you die for the advance lever also the Zorki 4k has it but I prefer the 6 as it's smaller and better built.

Also, having no slow speeds you can advance the film before or after changing the shutter speed.

Ko.Fe. · May 31, 2016

I'm not big fan on portraits with RF cameras, your SLR will do it better, to be honest.
So, it seems to be really problematic to buy cheap in Portugal. How about taking trip to Germany to get camera cheap? To see something like museum and get camera by same time.

Buying FSU these days most often means CLA. You have to be 100% sure what FSU camera is working while 99% of FSU cameras for sale needs CLA at least. With FSU RFs you have to be ready to service it yourself, if you want to keep it cheap. I recommend to skip all fancy and complicated FSU RFs and get only FED-2. It is camera which is suitable for self CLA and very good for RF camera. Telling it from Leica, Bessa RF user experience. With FSU cameras and 50mm lens you would have to learn how to compensate for parallax on close distances (portraits).
Advance knob on later FED-2 models has large diameter. If camera is clean inside, lubricated and curtains are tensioned properly it is as fast and as smooth as level advice. Again, telling it as FED-2 and M4-2, M4-P regular user.
Advancing with index finger slide of FED-2 is the norm if it is serviced camera.

For the street, based on my regular practice, rangefinder is next to useless. And SLR as well . Get any scale focus camera you could find in working condition with 40mm and wider lens.
Smena-8M FSU camera which was made in millions. Very cheap, but fun to use and lens is great. German (Singapure) Rollei 35 and Minox 35 are also fun for the street and have super optics and small size.
Even classic plastic P&S of all kinds with glass lenses are great for street photography and for every day.

Dinis Figueira · May 31, 2016

The thing is that I wanted to control the camera settings ( I have a Olympus Trip 500, neat camera, but It's a point and shoot)
With the rangefinder, it's smaller, makes less noice and prettier than my SLR. And I would learn something different.

About the FED2, what lens are recommended?

By the way, thank you all for the help.

Ko.Fe. · May 31, 2016

All FSU 50mm lenses are great for the money. All have subtle or noticeable difference in rendering.
FED-2 usually comes with Industar-61Л/Д lens. If aligned with camera and RF it gives great images. Collapsible Industars-50 3.5 will needed to be slightly modified to fit on FED-2.
Rigid Industar-50 3.5 which comes often with Zorki-6 is the ugliest and non-convenient lens I ever used. It is also very sharp one.
Jupiter-8 and Jupiter-3 are very good lenses for BW. Most of FSU lenses if old aren't perfect with color, but still usable.
Where are 35, 28 and 20mm FSU made lenses, but they will need external viewfinders. And FSU RF camera with FSU VF isn't really compact and or less noticeable.
Olympus XA is something I would call as small and less noticeable rangefinder.

Dinis Figueira · May 31, 2016

Ko.Fe. said:
All FSU 50mm lenses are great for the money. All have subtle or noticeable difference in rendering.
FED-2 usually comes with Industar-61Л/Д lens. If aligned with camera and RF it gives great images. Collapsible Industars-50 3.5 will needed to be slightly modified to fit on FED-2.
Rigid Industar-50 3.5 which comes often with Zorki-6 is the ugliest and non-convenient lens I ever used. It is also very sharp one.
Jupiter-8 and Jupiter-3 are very good lenses for BW. Most of FSU lenses if old aren't perfect with color, but still usable.
Where are 35, 28 and 20mm FSU made lenses, but they will need external viewfinders. And FSU RF camera with FSU VF isn't really compact and or less noticeable.
Olympus XA is something I would call as small and less noticeable rangefinder.

It's only for B&W.
The XA is something I've looked for but it gets expensive to buy internationally.

Going to look around these options.
But I'm still open to more ideias.

ColColt · May 31, 2016

Bite the bullet and get a Leica M2...no regrets. Light, quiet and made for candid street shooting or portraits.

_1DF3888a by David Fincher, on Flickr

ciniframe · May 31, 2016

Still don't understand. You have a Practica? With a 50 mm lens? If so, why can't you shoot portraits with that? Sounds like you are on a limited budget. If so, I'd spend on film, not another camera. With RF viewing it is true that you would be able to see expressions on a subjects face at the moment of exposure but that would be likely the only advantage of a RF over a SLR. The SLR will be able to get a tighter shot with more accurate framing than a RF. If I was on a very tight budget I'd do the best with what's on hand before struggling to come up with enough money to buy another camera.

Just my 2 cents.

Wallendo · May 31, 2016

See if you can get a good deal on an Olympus 35RC. It is a small inconspicuous camera with a decent lens.

cuthbert · May 31, 2016

Dinis Figueira said:
It's only for B&W.
The XA is something I've looked for but it gets expensive to buy internationally.

Going to look around these options.
But I'm still open to more ideias.

Ko.Fe's suggestion on Soviet lenses is correct, the sharpest is the I-61LD, the J-8 is smoother, the J-3 wide open is dreamy and best for portrait but...not cheap.

Also why do you insist in wanting a RF for portraits? Do you realise that you can't get closer than 0.9 to your subjet, 0,7 with a modern lens? Taht means a portrait from the wait up.

Dinis Figueira · Jun 1, 2016

It's for street photography too... just wanted something new to learn and kinda compact.

But thank you all for the input here.

Cycler · Jul 9, 2016

For 'street' photography I'd go for a 135mm for the Practica. Gives you a few yards start if anyone decides to rearrange your face for shooting their pic!

As far as 'fast' winding on knob-equipped cameras. Just run your forefinger along the knurling! Used by pioneer pressmen since the year dot. Even beating motordriven types.

Rrrgcy · Jul 9, 2016

Try to reach $ for a Leica IIIF, top quality better construct than Soviet, or the canon ivsb types, a little less $, top notch build and much more dialed/robust than Soviet. Both Verry Compact!

Patrick Robert James · Jul 9, 2016

Skip the FSU cameras. They are fun to use occasionally, but for everyday use not so much. Still if you can find one cheap that works it is worth spending a few dollars on one.

I think you are on the right track. The 70s/80s auto rangefinders are really small and the lenses on most of them are excellent. The Minolta 7sII was my favorite of the ones I have had. The Canon 17QLGIII is also nice. Minolta also made a couple more that were good. Olympus did as well. The Yashica GSNs were good cameras but it is a shame they sell for so much in your country. You should be able to find one of the above easily on Ebay. You may just have to bite the bullet on the taxes...

If you want a full blown camera, then the Canon 7 is a great cheap one. Just as good as a Leica in my opinion. It takes screw mount lenses so you can find cheap ones, or even use an FSU lens.

There are more described here. Anything you ever wanted to know about rangefinders more or less.

https://cameraquest.com/classics.htm

btaylor · Jul 9, 2016

Fed 2. Small, easy to use, great lenses. Cheap! See if you can get one that has been serviced. All the rangefinders I have purchased in the last few years (Leica, Canon, Contax, FSU) have required service even when promised by the seller that they are ready to shoot. 50 year old precision machines need service.

Julie McLeod · Jul 9, 2016

I hate asking a stupid question but what does FSU mean?

Bill Burk · Jul 9, 2016

Let me guess. Former (or formerly) Soviet Union

Bill Burk · Jul 9, 2016

Bill Burk said:
Let me guess. Former (or formerly) Soviet Union

Though I can't help but keep thinking Field Service Unit...

Bill Burk · Jul 9, 2016

A Canonet QL17 GIII is a very good value for a common and thus inexpensive rangefinder.

The think I remember most fondly about that camera (I used to have one), is how easy it is to load, focus, shoot, wind and burn through a roll of film.

I also found that, statistically-speaking, it gives a high percentage of acceptable photographs per roll. I never understood why, and it doesn't make any sense to me that a camera could magically deliver satisfying photographs. But that one did. Whenever I got a roll of film back from the lab (these were color prints), I found several that I liked. Other cameras would give me fewer shots that satisfied me.

I think it's because it's so easy to use.

You get the manual control you are looking for.

onre · Jul 9, 2016

Patrick Robert James said:
Skip the FSU cameras. They are fun to use occasionally, but for everyday use not so much.

Why not? I've shot thousands of frames with FSU stuff and still do use them, every day.

Patrick Robert James said:
If you want a full blown camera, then the Canon 7 is a great cheap one. Just as good as a Leica in my opinion.

Ever replaced a Canon 7 wrinkled curtain?

Julie McLeod · Jul 9, 2016

Bill Burk said:
Let me guess. Former (or formerly) Soviet Union

Thanks, Bill. Sometimes it's hard as a newcomer to film photography to decipher the terminology used here.

cuthbert · Jul 9, 2016

Rrrgcy said:
Try to reach $ for a Leica IIIF, top quality better construct than Soviet, or the canon ivsb types, a little less $, top notch build and much more dialed/robust than Soviet. Both Verry Compact!

With separate rangefinder and viewfinder windows they are slow shutters, IMO the Soviet ones or a Contax II or IIIa, or a Canon are better cameras.

Julie McLeod said:
Thanks, Bill. Sometimes it's hard as a newcomer to film photography to decipher the terminology used here.

I don't understand why they call them FSU as these cameras were made in the Soviet Union. FSUs should be anything produced in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine after 1991.

onre said:
Ever replaced a Canon 7 wrinkled curtain?

I don't think you need it, the wrinkled curtains are just an aesthetic problem.

Down Under · Jul 9, 2016

A lot of good advice here. Me, I'll go with ColtColt. Save up for a decent camera. Go top range. If you ultimately decide the M2 (or whichever Leica or other camera you invest in) isn't the one for you, chances are good you will sell at a profit.

Beware, however, Leicas can be addictive. Ditto Rolleis, Contaxes, Hasselblads et al.

Old Soviet Block cameras (the keyword here is "old") were and are notorious for quality control problems. Many have a high failure rate, often in the middle of a shoot. FSU and Fed users may praise them, but the ones I know own up to a dozen of them, and always carry two or three when they go shooting, so if (or rather when, as they all do) one breaks down on them, they can pick up another one and go on. OK for amateurs who want to play with cameras, but I reckon, who needs or wants that sort of aggravation?

Penny wise is too often pound foolish. (I'm living proof of this,so I know.) A cheap camera will be a cheap camera, no matter what brand it is. Sellers may offer you a good price, but often as not they are ridding themselves of a problem they no longer want to deal with. By the time you have factored a CLA or other service for it, the cost will be as much as or higher than what you will end up paying for a top end camera.

If traveling to a neighboring country to buy isn't on your cards, I suggest you consider finding a reliable established photo shop (avoid the DSLR retail bucket shops) in Portugal, develop a good relationship, and buy from them. For the right camera, you will never regret this. A good shop will supply you with much more than just the camera. Film, accessories. Advice! I did this in the 1980s and have never regretted it. My long-established Sydney dealer is also a good friend and someone I look up to and always query on all my film and photo matters. There isn't anyone in Melbourne I would trust for cameras and my Sydney guy is even worth a trip from Hobart to call on!

Cheap and Worth Rangefinder

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