Changing contrast grade vs dodging/burning

[Carriage]

If I've got a high contrast scene due to two differently lit areas but each area is say "normal" contrast, does it make sense that it's preferable to burn in the brighter area instead of going to a softer grade? How do you go about choosing between the two options (grade vs dodge/burn)? I suppose that if the areas weren't easily delineated it would make dodging or burning more difficult so you would probably try the contrast control. Is split grade printing something I should look into for such negatives?

Also, I'm using roll film so for the sake of the question I'm assuming that the film will developed for normal contrast so there's no flexibility there if that's even an option.

 

[MattKing]

I use contrast controls to adjust local contrast. Sometimes this means printing different parts of the negative with different filtrations - essentially split grade printing.
Dodging and burning is used to adjust tone - darker and lighter, as may be required.
It may be more an issue of semantics, but I don't consider a scene with a wide range of tones to be contrasty - it is just a scene with a wide range of tones.
A scene where adjacent tones are strongly delineated - that is a contrasty scene.

 

[Carriage]

The issue I have is that I can't keep detail in both the shaded and brightly lit areas of some negatives just by controlling the overall exposure of the paper. I suppose it ends up as a question of do I want to compress the tones of each section into just part of the overall "spectrum" or do I want it to look like how your eyes adjust when you swap between them and you get the full range depending on where you look.

 

[MattKing]

If the detail is there, and you can get what you want in each area separately, then it is possible to end up with a print that satisfactorily presents everything.
It may, however, be quite challenging to achieve that.
Some prints are quite complex and, frankly, a PITA to do.
Have you seen the printing diagrams in this article?: https://theliteratelens.com/2012/02/17/magnum-and-the-dying-art-of-darkroom-printing/

 

[Carriage]

Yeah, I've seen those. Worth seeing again. I'm not up to that level of detail yet though .

 

[MattKing]

With complex prints, it sometimes helps to change the order you are approaching things. For example, instead of burning in one area, dodging in others might be easier.
Masking techniques can also be very useful, although they are much easier if you use at least medium format size negatives.
And don't be afraid of shadows or highlights that lack detail - if there isn't a need for that detail, than don't think that you are somehow breaking the rules if you allow those areas to be detail free.

 

[jimjm]

I'll second what Matt said, as that's the way I approach it as well. Split-grade printing in combination with dodging and burning can be very effective. If your negative shows as much important detail as possible, then your biggest challenge is how you want to interpret the final print. Other photos work out perfectly at normal contrast with no manipulation. Developing your film for normal contrast is often the best way to start, unless you're intentionally going for a specific high-contrast or high-key look. There's no "right" or "wrong" way, it all depends on your interpretation. Get a few good books on printing, like from Eddie Ephraums or Tim Rudman, if you want to see what's really possible.

Here's one print I did with a combination of split-grade and dodging/burning. This is with a diffusion-head enlarger on Ilford MG RC paper. The first is the straight test print at grade #2. I remember I overexposed the film slightly (TMax100) to ensure I didn't lose any shadow detail. If I print this at a higher contrast, the highlight areas didn't change much, and printing longer just made everything darker overall. For the second print, my overall base exposure was at grade 4.5 (20 sec), (dodging the upper center of the door briefly) which brought out the texture in the walls and door. At grade #3, I burned the floor for 50% (10 sec) more time, the upper left corner for 50% and the upper right corner for 60% more. Then burned the left side of the image (except floor) for another 50%. Switched to grade 0 and burned the lower highlight area for 300% (60 sec) more time. Any longer than that and halos start to show up. Also burned in the upper window for 200% more time to add some density and tone.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

If I've got a high contrast scene due to two differently lit areas but each area is say "normal" contrast, does it make sense that it's preferable to burn in the brighter area instead of going to a softer grade? How do you go about choosing between the two options (grade vs dodge/burn)? I suppose that if the areas weren't easily delineated it would make dodging or burning more difficult so you would probably try the contrast control. Is split grade printing something I should look into for such negatives?

Also, I'm using roll film so for the sake of the question I'm assuming that the film will developed for normal contrast so there's no flexibility there if that's even an option.

I don't think split-grade will help you but cutting a mask might help.It will help you to treat the two areas separately with their appropriate contrast.

 

[piffey]

Wow this is a fantastic example. Thank you for walking through your steps on this negative. I tend to give up if I have to do too much dodging and burning, but this comparison really shows what can be accomplished with some time spent on a negative and some visualization of an end product.

I'll second what Matt said, as that's the way I approach it as well. Split-grade printing in combination with dodging and burning can be very effective. If your negative shows as much important detail as possible, then your biggest challenge is how you want to interpret the final print. Other photos work out perfectly at normal contrast with no manipulation. Developing your film for normal contrast is often the best way to start, unless you're intentionally going for a specific high-contrast or high-key look. There's no "right" or "wrong" way, it all depends on your interpretation. Get a few good books on printing, like from Eddie Ephraums or Tim Rudman, if you want to see what's really possible.

Here's one print I did with a combination of split-grade and dodging/burning. This is with a diffusion-head enlarger on Ilford MG RC paper. The first is the straight test print at grade #2. I remember I overexposed the film slightly (TMax100) to ensure I didn't lose any shadow detail. If I print this at a higher contrast, the highlight areas didn't change much, and printing longer just made everything darker overall. For the second print, my overall base exposure was at grade 4.5 (20 sec), (dodging the upper center of the door briefly) which brought out the texture in the walls and door. At grade #3, I burned the floor for 50% (10 sec) more time, the upper left corner for 50% and the upper right corner for 60% more. Then burned the left side of the image (except floor) for another 50%. Switched to grade 0 and burned the lower highlight area for 300% (60 sec) more time. Any longer than that and halos start to show up. Also burned in the upper window for 200% more time to add some density and tone.

View attachment 182583

View attachment 182584

 

[tedr1]

There is only so much that can be done with paper grade variations because of the undesirable overall effect on the contrast of the portions of the image that are not a problem.
Dodging and burning are very powerful tools that repay experiment and practice, it is more work and requires dexterity, however the results may repay the effort.

 

[NJH]

Jimjm that is a fantastic example. Essentially you spotted that the walls floor and door lack contrast in their detail and thus a higher base exposure contrast fixes that first before using split grade dodges and burns to put bright and dark elements in the right place.

This is effectively opposite to how I have tended to work thus far, I have the RH analyser so tend to fix base contrast and exposure on the meter readings for the bright and dark elements where I can see things I want to look almost black or almost white. Then after looking at the test print I have used dodging and burning to change the tone of elements in the photograph for artistic effect. I can see from your example this would likely leave me with poor detail contrast on the various surfaces so thanks for that, will help me to visualise the print a bit differently sometimes.

 

[DREW WILEY]

This is like asking whether you need a saw or hammer to build a house. You need both, and more tools too.