Chamonix 045N-2 Lens

IanBarber · May 5, 2016

I am seriously wanting to learn the craft of Large Format. Having read some reviews and good comments on this forum about the Chamonix 045N-2 I am liking the look of this camera.

Looking through eBay I see a few 90mm lenses available for sale.

What is the difference between Copal 0 and Copal 1 and should I be looking at one over the other ?

pdeeh · May 5, 2016

Www.largeformatphotography.info is a mine of information, as is the forum attached to it.
While the articles look as though (from their dates) they ought to be out of date, the functional information is still very much to the point.

michaelorr · May 5, 2016

Should not be a discriminator - do the research on the lens w/o regard to the shutter. Typical 90mm lf lenses come in copal 0, the smaller shutter (size of the board mount opening.
045N-2 camera is fantastic! I love mine. If you order it, get lens boards from Hugo. His are very nice, have bevels in the right place, and i have no end of problem with the linhof variants and knockoffs.
I enjoyed and very much liked all of your recent gallery images posted. Great work, all. 4x5 will make stunningly good negs in your hands, and the camera is sheer joy to play with.

shutterfinger · May 5, 2016

IanBarber said:
What is the difference between Copal 0 and Copal 1 and should I be looking at one over the other ?

That is the shutter size which is determined by the lens. Lens design determines how large a shutter is required. Faster lens need bigger shutters.

IanBarber · May 5, 2016

shutterfinger said:
That is the shutter size which is determined by the lens. Lens design determines how large a shutter is required. Faster lens need bigger shutters.

So am I right in saying that Copal 0 and Copal 1 will both work on the Chamonix 045N-2

IanBarber · May 5, 2016

michaelorr said:
I enjoyed and very much liked all of your recent gallery images posted. Great work, all. 4x5 will make stunningly good negs in your hands, and the camera is sheer joy to play with.

Thank you. Apart from the lens board, any other things i need to be aware of that might jump out and bite.

Ai Print · May 5, 2016

IanBarber said:
So am I right in saying that Copal 0 and Copal 1 will both work on the Chamonix 045N-2

Yes, I have two lenses that are Copal-1, a Rodenstock 180mm 5.6 Apo Sironar S and a Schneider 350mm F11 Apo Tele Xenar, no issues at all as the 45N2 is very rigid even at full extension.

Most 90mm large format lenses are Copal-0 like the one I have, a Nikkor SW 90mm F8, about the smallest and lightest modern 90mm there is at 355 grams and utterly spectacular sharpness with very generous coverage. I find very little to no fall off with the Nikkor 90mm so I have never really felt the need for a center ND filter which the need for becomes more common in lenses that are wider.

My back yard with my Chamonix 45N2, Nikkor SW 90mm F8 @ F22, Tmax 100....

michaelorr · May 5, 2016

Nothing i can think of that might "bite" regarding the camera or supplier. I did have a comment on my use of the camera recently here in apug (there was a url link here which no longer exists) things that i have found quirky or in need of careful attention. Obviously a dark cloth is needed, i love the one from view camera store. You will be using sheet film and need to shop for the holders. So, moving from roll film to sheet film is a significant alteration of workflow. Need to load and unload sheets in total darkness. processing needs to be figured out. enlarger. enlarging lens, etc etc. You will need a loupe for focusing. I very much like the toyo at pricepoint to quality ratio. >michael

IanBarber · May 5, 2016

Ai Print said:
My back yard with my Chamonix 45N2, Nikkor SW 90mm F8 @ F22, Tmax 100....

Very nice and what a back yard

michaelorr · May 5, 2016

VERY nice backyard indeed. Whoa, pause while i catch my breath! Well, of course the image and comment were all about a lens and camera. Hey Ma, look at that lens...and boy that bellows must be 90mm long... The Chamonix design has a focus rail with several attachment points for the front standard, which keep it compact while accommodating wide range of FL. The universal bellows is very nice to work with when using short FL like 90mm. I personally especially like worm screw fine focus, but some may not. One other caution since you are looking ebay at lenses. Be careful of the 90mm lenses in compur shutters, which were size #00, different from #0. The #00 is not supplied today so lens boards are hard to find in that size. Stick to copal.

Ai Print · May 5, 2016

michaelorr said:
The Chamonix design has a focus rail with several attachment points for the front standard, which keep it compact while accommodating wide range of FL. The universal bellows is very nice to work with when using short FL like 90mm. I personally especially like worm screw fine focus, but some may not.

Ah, you made me think of some things:

1. At first the decision of which hole to put the front standard in may seem clunky but after awhile, it becomes very fast and second nature. For example, even though there is a hole closest to the rear standard that would seem logical for the widest of lenses, I find it best to use the next one up so that the front of the camera does not show up in the frame. So you then just move the rear standard inward to hit infinity. So I use the second closest hole for my 75, 90 and 135 Apo S. The third hole would be for a 150 and the 4th for a 180 & 200. The front most or 5th hole I use for my 240 and longer. Of course this all assumes that you want to be able to focus at infinity with any of those lenses so if you are trying to do macro that is 1:5 or closer, then use the holes that will give you greater extension right off the bat.

2. To the right of the fine focus knob on the arch that houses the focus screw, there is a small allen head tension screw that can be adjusted in *small* amounts to loosen or tighten the focus tension. I find that I loosen it in the Winter and tighten it in the Summer or when I am pointing the camera either nearly straight up or down to help prevent focus creep, I tighten it.

See below....

michaelorr · May 5, 2016

Nice, AI, i had not picked up on that feature, thanks for info! And great point about the choice of location when using 90mm. i have also experienced that interference. Didn't think about it here.

Alan Gales · May 5, 2016

IanBarber said:
Thank you. Apart from the lens board, any other things i need to be aware of that might jump out and bite.

Maybe the 90mm?

A normal focal length lens will be easier to learn on than a 90mm. Normal lenses have more coverage so they are easier to learn camera movements with. I'd recommend a 150mm, 180mm or a 210mm long normal as your first lens. They are cheaper than a 90mm too. Learn with the normal lens and then add the 90mm later. Even if you bought the 90mm lens first you will want a normal focal length lens too.

Ai Print · May 5, 2016

Alan Gales said:
Maybe the 90mm?

A normal focal length lens will be easier to learn on than a 90mm. Normal lenses have more coverage so they are easier to learn camera movements with. I'd recommend a 150mm, 180mm or a 210mm long normal as your first lens. They are cheaper than a 90mm too. Learn with the normal lens and then add the 90mm later. Even if you bought the 90mm lens first you will want a normal focal length lens too.

Definitely agree if he is only considering a 90mm lens at the moment.

That being said after reading up on the topic for months when I first started out in LF in 2012, my first lenses were a 90, 135 and 180 and I bought them all at the same time, found no detriment to learning large format in having the trio.

I now own and use 8 lenses but the 90, 135 and 180 which have all been replaced with the best I could find are always my most used lenses. At 235mm, the image circle on the Nikkor SW 90 4.5 and 8.0 are nearly if not as big as a fair number of 150mm lenses.

Alan Gales · May 5, 2016

Ai Print said:
Definitely agree if he is only considering a 90mm lens at the moment.

That being said after reading up on the topic for months when I first started out in LF in 2012, my first lenses were a 90, 135 and 180 and I bought them all at the same time, found no detriment to learning large format in having the trio.

I now own and use 8 lenses but the 90, 135 and 180 which have all been replaced with the best I could find are always my most used lenses. At 235mm, the image circle on the Nikkor SW 90 4.5 and 8.0 are nearly if not as big as a fair number of 150mm lenses.

I'm sure it didn't hurt you owning more than just the normal lens at the beginning. I did the same thing. It's just that sometimes people buy a bunch of stuff and then decide that large format isn' t for them. I've made money buying people's kits and then parting them out.

I started with a 75, 135, 210. Quickly sold the 75 and replaced it with a 90. Then later I decided I wanted to try 8x10. Now I own 121, 180, 250, 14" and 19" lenses. I use the 121 and 180 for 4x5. The rest I use for both formats. Everyone thinks they know what camera and lenses they want at the start and most end up with different equipment in the end. As you well know, you learn with experience.

Real nice shot of your backyard by the way, Ai.

Christopher Dewey · May 5, 2016

IanBarber said:
Thank you. Apart from the lens board, any other things i need to be aware of that might jump out and bite.

This may be obvious, but in low light, an f/5.6 lens will be easier to compose and focus with than an f/8 lens; different lenses make different tradeoffs. Also, unless you're nearsighted, you may want something to help your eyes focus on the ground glass, or magnify the details for fine focusing.

If you get a fair deal on a lens, you should be able to resell it and get your money back out of it. That said, if price is a consideration, you may find that 135mm lenses can be had for hundreds of dollars less, and still on the wide end of "normal." (And if you go wider than 90, you may need a center filter.)

Ai Print · May 6, 2016

When I got going in 4x5, I knew it was not a trial thing to see if I liked it or not. I had already gotten experience years ago as a second shooter and lab tech in the mid 90's on a major ad campaign ( Yamaha Motor Corp. ) on the road that took over 6 months. We used everything from 35 to 8x10 all in chrome on that gig, I think it had a budget of 750K, it was an amazing learning experience for sure.

So fast forward to 2012 and I knew pretty much what I was getting into...

A couple things I pinned down right out of the gate was that unlike scanning chromes for glossy ads and brochures, I had to be downright anal in working with sheet film with darkroom based prints in mind in terms of dust prevention. I also learned that in addition to a good loupe, a pair of -3 el' cheapo reading glasses from the local pharmacy were pretty clutch for scanning that ground glass for compositional demons, they live in my LF pack full time.

And finally, I figured out I was more of a 135 normal lens guy than a 150 normal guy pretty early on. So the last lens I would ever part with and the first one I would buy as a landscape shooter would be what I have, the Rodenstock 135mm 5.6 Apo Sironar S. The negs from that even from TMAX 100 just go on forever in terms of micro-contrast and detail.

I know, I know.....people like to suggest all kinds of low cost options for the first timer and that is indeed a good point, but the OP is an experienced and talented shooter and is starting out with a killer camera. The glass is the heart and soul of any image so if you are going to start with one lens, get one that will show you why the move to large format is worth the trip.

OK....I'll pipe down now and let the more experienced folks lead the parade....

Chamonix 045N-2 Lens

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