CD-32?

Athiril · Aug 23, 2009

Found it on Sigma-Aldritch's site as a photographic chemical

"N-Ethyl-N-(2-hydroxyethyl)-p-phenylenediamine sulfate salt monohydrate"
Found some info on it here - http://www.chemicalbook.com/ProductChemicalPropertiesCB4300409_EN.htm

Can anybody shed some light on this?

Given it's a related ppd.. I assume its a newer process/formula for colour?

It's rather relatively inexpensive on Sigma Aldritch's site compared to the price they sell other stuff for.

lonelyboy · Aug 23, 2009

I think it should be a developing agent.

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2009

This appears to be CD-4 used in the C-41 process. That number (CD-32) is meaningless as the EK CD numbering system stops at CD-6.

PE

stefan4u · Aug 23, 2009

CD 32 is a color developing agent used in some older color processes. In Germany (where Im from) it was known as T-32 by Agfa and ORWO and used in paper developers quite a time ago (Agfa/Orwocolor 112). Another Synonym is Droxychrome (May & Baker).

As far as I know it can be used as a fine grain BW developing agent in conjunction with glycine too, but I doubt it will be worth the hassle

Regards from Germany,
Stefan

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2009

The chemical shown in the reference is CD-4 however, and not an earlier developing agent. Early developing agents from Agfa and ORWO included a Sulfonic acid at the end of the chain rather than a hydroxy group. There were several of these with different names rather than numbers. One name in use for CD4 was Dicolamine, IIRC.

PE

stefan4u · Aug 23, 2009

Not sure about the given reference, but for sure T-32 alias cd32 existed.
Agfa called it Äthyl-Oxyäthyl-paraphenylendiaminsulfat" in its formulations from about 1960 (I only have fragments).
After some research I found this cas no.: 4327-84-8

Dead Link Removed

This looks pretty close; tempted me to assume its T-32
I stumbled some time ago over this stuff in order to process old material

This is bit more contemporal (but german)

T32 is/was N-Ethyl-, N-Hydroxyethyl-p-Phenylendiamin sulfat in west Germany.
N-Ethyl-N-ß-oxyethyl-p-phenylen-diaminsulfat was the east german analoge, seems to be even closer to the older Agfa formulation (or may look so because of the different typology ):confused:

Origins:

http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cach...wissen_id=5+t32+orwo&cd=2&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de
and
http://www.meinews.net/ddr-t113770.html

Regards,
Stefan

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2009

Stefan;

You are correct and I erred! This is NOT CD-4.

CD-4 has a methyl group on the ring. I missed that trying to decipher the structure which is distorted on my screen. No excuse there, just a pure error. This developer was never numerically placed by EK in its CD sequence and never used in any process by EK. It was purely a European material.

Apologies to all.

PE

stefan4u · Aug 23, 2009

Dear PE

Thank you very much for clearing this up, but there is absolutely no need to apologize.
You are such a great tutor, praise you

But dammed, the structure formulas look like twins, things like this small methyl group separated the Agfa and Kodak Universe? This is somehow funny

Regards,
Stefan

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2009

Yes, the Methyl group close to the free amino group is a Kodak invention. It causes the dye that forms to be twisted out of coplanarity with the benzene ring, thus shifting the hue and improving dye stability by preventing easy attack on a non-planar bond with steric hindrance. (For those that didn't get the explanation, Kodak scientists discovered that blocking the dye with an extra "thingie" improved it!)

And, Stefan, when I goof, I goof and owe you a correction and an apology.

PE

Athiril · Aug 23, 2009

Up to CD-6? I saw a patent reference up to CD-11 ( http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5459014/description.html )

So why is there a near identical chemical much lower on the CAS index - http://www.chemicalbook.com/ProductChemicalPropertiesCB9348048_EN.htm

CD-32 (C10H20N2O6S) vs This one (C10H18N2O5S).

Sorry, my chemistry knowledge is much greater than high school level, and I find some of this a bit odd when chasing down possibilities.

AgX · Aug 23, 2009

As hinted at above, there is the Kodak `CD´ and the generic `CD´.

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2009

Well, I cannot comment on CAS #s as IDK how they are assigned.

I can say that Kodak has a numbering system starting with CD-1 and going through CD-6. My search turns up many references to CD-11 and other CD numeric combinations but none of these refer to the Kodak assignments. Anyone is free to assign values, but Kodak uses an internal and external assignment to Color Developers. They maintain this in their catalog.

The reference you use is to a Konishiroku patent. They are free to use what they wish. I remain consistant with Kodak nomenclature.

PE

Athiril · Aug 23, 2009

They sure dont make it easy to understand

CD-32?

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