Causes for tonal variation?

[TheTrailTog]

Both of the below shots were done on separate occasions using Slavich Bromportrait paper, Ilford Warmtone developer 1+9 and then toned for 6 minutes in Kentmere Rapid Selenium Toner 1+19. As far as I can remember temps an everything were the same both sessions and I can't really think of any reall variables between the 2 sessions. Any ideas on what would cause such a difference in tones?

Aaron

PS-the bridge shot is not mine. A friend of mine, who is also a member here, cosmonaut, wanted me to try printing one of his favorite negatives since he doesn't have a dark room. Just wanted to make sure Greg got credit for a fabulous shot

 

[Marcus K]

Did you mix up fresh developer or were you reusing it? I have found that Ilford WT developer produces warmer tones and less d-max after a day or so. This will affect how the paper tones in KRST. It is also possible that the KRST was exhaused. I know it keeps for quite a while, but the effects of toning decrease over time. I now only keep my selenium toning solution for 2 months and Ilford WT devloper no more than 24 hours. This helps me keep consistent results.

 

[Andrew Moxom]

Aaron, a number of things could impact overall tonality. Firstly was this the same film type? Dev time, Subject brightness range? I am assuming not. The variations in the film alone could be enough to sway the tones one way or the other. I will admit that the bridge shot looks a lot warmer, and the SBR looks longer, but well contained in film development. I have found that I can get REALLY large tonal scales with Slavich Bromportrait when using a TMAX400 neg with a long SBR. All films have slightly different responses and all tones can render differently and that can alter the tonal scale available in the print.

One thing to note also is that when printing, depending on whether the prints were done first, or last in the session could come into play as well. Also, was print dev dilution exactly the same? What abou the temp of the selenium tonere, was it the same mixed batch used at the same temp for both darkroom sessions? Bromportrait can really tone quickly when put into warm selenium toner?

 

[TheTrailTog]

Thanks for the responses The films are indeed different. Mine was shot with Plus-X. I don't recall what Greg's was shot with but, it wasn't Plus-X. The only developing chemicals I reuse are fixer and stop bath. The selenium and developer were both mixed up just before use. Thinking back, both prints were about the 7th or 8th prints into the session and both were the first prints to be toned afterwards. Temps are always consistent at 70F +/-1F. The only thing I can think of now that you mention it Andrew is the exposure time. The bridge shot was a straight print with 15 second exposure, while my shot was 35 seconds overall. I keep my developing times consistent at 3min. Would the exposure time cause that much of a difference?

 

[panastasia]

Aaron,
When I look at both prints I see one is selenium toned more than the other. It may have appeared like the other when pulled from the bath, but unless you were viewing them side-by-side in the bath, they were probably toned by eye more than by timing, when watching the tone appear. Just a guess..

Remember, the prints continue to tone for awhile during the wash period - and probably varies with temperature.

Paul

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you're referring to the fact that the bridge is warmer than the seascape, this doesn't have anything to do with the film, and if the development time was the same, I don't see the exposure time making a significant difference. "Tonality" is something of a vague term, so the film will affect the distribution of densities, but this is different from the color of the print,

So what happened between the fixer and the toner? Did one spend more time in the fixer or more time in a holding bath or rinse before the toner? That could make a difference.

 

[TheTrailTog]

Hi David, sorry, you are correct. I was referring to the color tones of the prints. Both were fixed in Ilford Rapid Fixer for 5 minutes, washed for 1 hours, toned, and then washed an hour and a half. Even just after regular developing you could see the difference in warmtone, regardless of the selenium. Anyone know what the shelf life of Ilford Warmtone is? I mix single use and have been printing once a week. Maybe it's loosing strength or something??? It's stored at room temp. As for the selenium toning the I started the timer on the bridge shot after the print had settled in while the other I started the timer as soon as I put the print in. So at most, the bridge had another 20-30 seconds in the selenium but, even after a couple minutes in you could see the difference between the 2 clearly. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what I did differently with the bridge shot because I really want to get that color again.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I don't know about Slavich Bromportrait, but in Azo the print tone can change very rapidly in selenium after reaching a certain threshold. You get an increase in Dmax, and then suddenly it all goes purple-brown. Maybe that's what you're seeing with the Slavich paper.

 

[TheTrailTog]

So maybe, I pulled it just short of the changeover the second time? The prints before toning did have a difference in tone to begin with though. The only other thing I can think of is that different papers were used in the beginning of the sessions. When I printed the bridge shot, I did 4 or 5 prints on Ilford Ilfospeed to gauge my print time, then did a print each on Ilforbrom and Emaks before using the Bromportrait. This last session I was using Arista II RC for 3 prints, then swapped to the Bromportrait. Would the different papers cause the developer to exhaust differently?