Care to help me get my head around Good flashes for DSLR and film cameras?

philipus · Oct 2, 2021

Hello everyone

I'm mainly using film cameras (135 and 120 film) and also have an EOS 5D mk II which I sometimes use as a flash meter.

I'm considering Godox flashes and triggers to get a unified system in place of my currently slightly motley crew of lighting stuff, which consists of various manufacturers' flashes and Cactus V6 triggers.

What I am wondering is if I could use the Canon-specific Godox flashes and triggers on my film cameras? I hope that would be possible as it seems those flashes and triggers are the ones I need for my workflow, but I'd like to know if someone has tried this.

Thank you very much in advance
Philip

Larry the sailor · Jan 5, 2022

I've got a Yongnuo set up, trigger and flashes, for my Canon 70D and they seem to work well. I've also got a set up for my manual film cameras a Photixx Ares trigger and remote and a couple of Lumopro 180 speed lights. For what I do they work well. Both the Yongnuo flashes and the Lumopro units will do optical slave. With the Yongnu trigger I can set up all the radio linked speedlights remotely, With the Lumopros they of course have to be set manually. Up to a point you can "mix and match" using the optical slave to trigger the lights. I've done a bit of that but I'm just playing around with a hobby.

Sirius Glass · Jan 5, 2022

I have and use the Nikon SB800. It has many great features including zoom to the lens focal length, it is powerful, can bounce and is compatible with film and digital photography.

wiltw · Jan 6, 2022

Film camera can shoot with flash that have

Manual output power selection
Photosensor flash automation
TT:L flash automation

Digital cameras can do 1 & 2, and they replace TTL with

4. Manufacturer made flash units typically can do nTTL, where 'n' is brand dependent and may NOT be compatible with #3.

It used to be that most flashes were manufacturer made (same brand as camera) and a few brands like Sunpak, Sigma, Metz offered different models tailored to be compatible with one specific brand of camera. Metz supported the SCA flash system, in which the flash was 'universal' and modules tailored the flash to be compatible with specific brands and ranges of camera models.. For example one Metz module worked with TTL, and newer module(s) workd with iTTL vs. eTTL vs pTTL cameras. Unfortunately the SCA system has largely fallen out of use over the past 10+ years.

So the question you need to ask, if you are a Canon film and digital camera user, is,

"Is this flash compatible with both Canon TTL film cameras and also Canon digital eTTL cameras."

and change the name 'Canon' to the mix of film camera brand and digital camera brand that is in your bag....both the same brand of camera, you are more likely to be in luck. Mix camera brands and you need to use Metz SCA compatible flash with appropriate modules for your mix of brands of cameras.

TheFlyingCamera · Jan 6, 2022

If your film cameras are NOT Canon 35mm SLRs that use their E-TTL system, you can get Godox flashes that are compatible with the Godox wireless triggering system and support both E-TTL and non-TTL wireless triggering. Then all you need is two triggers; one E-TTL and one standard. I have a pair of Godox/Neewer/Calumet/Flashpoint/etc etc AD360 flashes that are the earlier version that support wireless triggering but not TTL. They make a newer version that is TTL compatible (you just get the appropriate TTL trigger for your camera system), and you can also use the non-TTL wireless triggers with them too. The AD360 is a bare-bulb style flash with an external rechargeable battery pack. It packs quite a wallop and can be used in lieu of a studio flash if needed, but it can also be treated as a speedlight.

spijker · Jan 7, 2022

I use a Canon 5DmkII and a Mamiya 645AFDIII with the Godox XproC(anon) trigger. With the 5DmkII, I get all the functionality; TTL flash metering, automatic High Speed Sync etc. With the Mamiya and the XproC on the hot shoe, the camera triggers the flashes correctly but no TTL flash. You'll have to meter the flash with an external meter and set the flash power manually on the XproC trigger. Both the Mamiya and the XproC have 4 additional contacts on the hot shoe but that doesn't seem to mess things up. If the OP's camera has a hot shoe with only the middle contact, it definitely should work fine. The Xpro trigger also has a 2.5mm port that can be used to connect a PC sync cord. That way, cameras without a hot shoe can still be used with the Godox system.

There's a good chance that the XproC also works with full functionality on the last generation Canon film SLRs that use E-TTL.

Sirius Glass · Jan 7, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
I have and use the Nikon SB800. It has many great features including zoom to the lens focal length, it is powerful, can bounce and is compatible with film and digital photography.

The Nikon SB800 works with my Hasselblad and will work with any camera that has a PC socket.

wiltw · Jan 7, 2022

To be very specitic, digital TTL is NEVER EVER 'compatible with 'film TTL'...the two operate totally different because

film TTL has an in-body sensor that reads the film surface and a signal is sent to the flash to 'stop putting out light' when sufficient light is sensed during exposure
digital TTL always command a Preflash, reads the reflected light, and then sends a command for the computed amount of fractional (or full) output, because the shiny digital image sensor makes film TTL exposure measurement during exposure not possible.

Companies like Canon and Nkon have engineered their flashes to have separate modes for both

1) film TTL and for
2) digital TTL.

Whether aftermarket manufacturers have done that has to be read carefully in the specs for what flash modes are supported by the flash.
( It is only Manual power mode (no flash automation) and perhaps also photosensor Auto which is a truly universal form of flash...the TTL modes themselves are very specific)

spijker · Jan 7, 2022

I just tried the Godox XproC trigger and the TT350-Canon speedlight with the Canon EOS Elan IIe / EOS 50e film SLR. It looks like they're compatible. The camera automatically switches to 1/60s when the flash or trigger is turned on and the flash icon in the viewfinder is on. The camera triggers the flash properly. I can not verify whether the TTL flash metering works properly without using a film for that. I tried measuring the flash exposure with a Polaris flash meter but Polaris triggers on the pre-flash from the E-TTL system and gives a false reading. The same happens with the built-in flash of the camera. So everything points towards that the Godox X system is (backwards) compatible with the Canon SLRs with E-TTL. I think that E-TTL was introduced with the EOS 1N in 1994. So every Canon SLR from then on should work with the Godox X system.

@wiltw Canon uses a pre-flash to measure, calculate the exposure and then fires the real flash. That works the same for film and digital.

wiltw · Jan 7, 2022

spijker said:
@wiltw Canon uses a pre-flash to measure, calculate the exposure and then fires the real flash. That works the same for film and digital.

Not sure when you grabbed that quote of mine, but as it was captured the statement can be quite mistleading! Film TTL is very different, and not compatible with the Canon eTTL flash mode...not at all works 'the same'.

Helge · Jan 7, 2022

My strictly personal and empirical experience with flash and film is that you basically need as much power as you can get. That is whether you bounce in a room or use it directly outside at night or as fill flash.
I don't care much about TTL, unless I'm shooting slide. And even then Provia, experience and a bit of luck can work.
Sure, you can use a powerful Canon flash. IF and only if it does manual easily and quickly. Otherwise its going to get tedious.
More important still is getting the flash off camera and finding a sure and easy way to use wireless triggers on the film body.

wiltw · Jan 7, 2022

Helge said:
My strictly personal and empirical experience with flash and film is that you basically need as much power as you can get. That is whether you bounce in a room it or use it directly outside at night or as fill flash.
I don't care much about TTL, unless I'm shooting slide. And even then Provia, experience and a bit of luck can work.
Sure, you can use a powerful Canon flash. IF and only if it does manual easily and quickly. Otherwise its going to get tedious.
More important still is getting the flash off camera and finding a sure and easy way to use wireless triggers on the film body.

My own version on that statement is, "I don't rely much at all on digital camera TTL"...it is nowhere as reliable and dependable in result as the old film TTL. Film TTL got me good exposures when a non-TTL flash would have been fooled to give a wrong exposure. Extensive testing of digital TTL has let me understand that is is greatly flawed, as implemented.
When, during use, eTTL acts up, I rapidly switch the flash to the old photosensor Auto...much more reliability in exposure results than digital TTL!

Care to help me get my head around Good flashes for DSLR and film cameras?

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