Carbon Color Printing (CMYK) Reference Material

[laroygreen]

Hey guys,

So after mulling over the idea of setting up a darkroom for colour printing - I came across some material on doing Carbon Color Printing and I have been completely smitten! From what I understand so far, while carbon printing is much more time consuming, it actually seems a lot more practical for where I live as I wouldn't need a license to import chemistry (RA-4 is considered hazardous, but potassium dichromate is readily available locally from specialized sellers) and I wouldn't need to completely light proof (and also keep safe, well ventilated and cool) a room (currently a major challenge because I rent).

From the opinions floating around, it seems that carbon color printing is a fools errand (I bought the Luminous Landscape journal episode 20 - and in the traditional way it would be, but I would do inkjet separation negatives which would remove a lot of the frustration they were talking about); but other than the time commitment, patience and fastidiousness required, I really don't see any other barriers to entry (but I could be wrong).

I know there is still a lot to learn about the process before committing to do it, so can anyone recommend a book or other resource that could give more details? Most of what I found are videos on Youtube that are really good, but lack certain details (e.g. mixing colour pigment ratios, temperatures, sizing, gelatin coating, soak time, dry time, determining exposures, etc.) or webpages that are dedicated to only black and white printing with carbon (seems similar to colour pigment, just 4 times as long).

Also, if there are any reasons (other than what I listed above) to not do this process, please share! I understand that this would be a very long road, and I would need to start doing black and white printing before I can move up to colour; but it makes sense to map the whole journey before investing in the process (I have nothing against BW, but 90% of what I shoot and print is in colour; I wouldn't attempt a process that would not get me to colour eventually).

Thanks!

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Hello,

I can forward you a pdf book on carbon printing but BW. If you have 24mb space at your mailbox , pm me your email address.

Umut

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Laroy ,

Watch that video.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[laroygreen]

Thanks, watched this already too! I've already digested most of the known internet to try and find more information ... this video (and the one entitled "ultrastable" on youtube) may be all the information I need, but I really can't say if the parts left out are the really hard parts - seems all a bit too easy

 

[Hexavalent]

The books by Luis Nadeau provide excellent starting points for carbon and carbro (including colour). They do assume proficiency in densitometry and lab technique, and there is no mention of digital/hybrid techniques. Luis' books are difficult to find / expensive, but you might be able to contact him through photoconservation.com

Having seen some of Luis' work, I can attest that he is an absolute master of color carbon.

 

[laroygreen]

Holy hell ... one book is for $24,654.32 (+ $3.99 shipping) on Amazon ... lol!!!! Thanks for the link though, has some nice looking reference material so I'll take a look.

 

[Hexavalent]

Wow! What a scam!

Contact Luis through his website - he'll have a good laugh at what people are charging for his books

Holy hell ... one book is for $24,654.32 (+ $3.99 shipping) on Amazon ... lol!!!! Thanks for the link though, has some nice looking reference material so I'll take a look.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Wilson, E. L. 1868. The American Carbon Manual. New York: Scovill Manufacturing.
Spencer, J., et al. 1875. The Autotype Process; Being a Practical Manual of Instruction in the Art of Printing in
Carbon, or Other Permanent Pigment, with a Notice of the Autotype Mechanical Printing Process. London:
The Autotype Company.
James, G. H. 1895. “Carbon Printing in Its Artistic Aspects.” Journal of the Camera Club 8.425: 52–53.
Weston, W. 1896. The Art and Process of Carbon Printing. New York: Gennert.
Woodbury, W. E. 1896. The Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Photography. New York: Scovill & Adams, 80–85,
94–95,375.
Bolte, M. 1898. Carbon Printing. New York: E. & H.T.
Illingsworth, T. 1903. Carbon Photography Made Easy. London: Iliffe & Sons.
Sawyer, J. R. 1909. The ABC Guide to the Making of Autotype Prints in Permanent Pigments (3rd ed.). London:
The Autotype Company.
Jones, B. E. 1911. Cassell’s Cyclopaedia of Photography. New York: Cassell, 58–59, 90–92, 411, 538.
Wall, E. J. 1926. The Dictionary of Photography and Reference Book for Amateur and Professional Photographers.
Edited by F. J. Mortimer. London: Iliffe & Sons, 42, 115, 116–24, 134, 436–37, 474–75.
The Autotype Company. 1927. Trichrome Printing by the Autotype Carbon and Carbro Processes. London: The
Autotype Company.
Eder, J. M. 1945. History of Photography. New York: Columbia University Press, 552–60.
Crawford, W. 1979. The Keepers of Light: A History and Working Guide to Early Photographic Processes. New
York: Morgan and Morgan.
Nadeau, L. 1982. History and Practice of Carbon Processes. Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada: Atelier Luis
Nadeau.
Matus, T. 1983. Technique of Carbon: Carbon Printing. N.p.: Todd Matus.
Nadeau, L. 1987. Gum Dichromate and Other Direct Carbon Processes, from Artigue to Zimmerman. Fredericton,
New Brunswick, Canada: Atelier Luis Nadeau.
Nadeau, L. 1994. Encyclopedia of Printing, Photographic and Photomechanical Processes. Vols. 1 and 2.
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada: Atelier Luis Nadeau, 53–58, 325, 353, 391–92.
Knodt, R., and K. Pollmeier. 1999. Verfahren der Fotografie. Essen: Museum Folkwang, 70.
Lamb, A. R. 2003. Library of Professional Picture Framing. Vol. 6, Framing Photography. Akron, OH: Columbia
Publishing, 26.
Cartier-Bresson, A. 2008. Le Vocabulaire Technique de la Photographie. Paris: Marval, 156–60.
Kennel, S. 2009. In the Dark Room: An Illustrated Guide to Photographic Processes before the Digital Age.
Washington, DC: National Gallery of Art, 18–19.
Lavédrine, B. 2009. Photographs of the Past: Process and Preservation. Los Angeles: The Getty Conservation
Institute, 164–69.
Leyshon, W. E. 2012. Photographs from the 19th Century: A Process Identification Guide. Prescott, AZ: Sharlot
Hall Museum Archives, 31–33, 99–100. Accessed March 26, 2013. http://www.sharlot.org/archives/
photographs/19th/book/index.html11 CARBON
The Atlas of Analytical Signatures of Photographic Processes
The Getty Conservation Institute, © 2013 J. Paul Getty Trust
Key Car

 

[CMB]

If your main interest is in the historic or technical background of the color carbon process, these books will provide a great deal of information. If you wish to make your own materials and color prints, you will find information either out of date or inaccurate. The best place to learn the process is right here - and on other forums dedicated to the exchange of info on temperatures, pigment concentrations, dry times and etc.

Charles

 

[Vaughn]

Wow! What a scam!

Contact Luis through his website - he'll have a good laugh at what people are charging for his books

Last time I contacted Luis, he wrote that he had copies in his basement...$16 each -- and he'll sign them if you wish.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I have just sent an email to Greywind from Ukraine who shoot the video. Lets see what he reports back.

Umut

 

[Prof_Pixel]

>>RA-4 is considered hazardous, but potassium dichromate is readily available locally from specialized sellers

Depending on where you live, chromium compounds may be considered hazardous and difficult to dispose of legally.

 

[laroygreen]

Ok, the Bostick and Sullivan guide is very helpful - but BW specific; and "seems" adaptable to the colour process. I'll relook at the videos on Youtube and see if any variations exist, but so far seems to be the same, just need to do it 4 times instead of 1 time. I'll drop Mr. Nadeau a note via the website and see if any copies are still available (and importantly, affordable )

@CMB: Yes, I am interested in the detailed workflow rather than the scientific merits and mechanisms of the process (though I appreciate that this knowledge would help with the workflow).
@Mustafa: Thanks!
@Prof_Pixel: Indeed, but I would be going via a local dealer so I don't need a license to import - and no license is required to use/possess the compound (if there was a local dealer in RA-4 chemicals, it would be the same case as well, but there aren't any that I am aware of).

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

[video=youtube;8knbj7vVhC0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knbj7vVhC0[/video]

I got e mail from member Greywind from Crimea , Ukraine and he points

1
I generaly use ~2 ml of 10% ammonium bichromate solution per 30x24 print.

2
Temperature during all stages is ~24°C.

3
Exposure time is not fixed and should be determened for given tissue/pigment/sensitizer combination.
Calibration procedure is complicated and is described in details (in Russian) here - http://1greywind.livejournal.com/



Umut

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

[video=youtube;FgpGUUYnuEg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FgpGUUYnuEg[/video]

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

[video=youtube;mZ2Eu_Q4qqA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mZ2Eu_Q4qqA[/video]

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I have just sent a new message to Greywind in Ukraine and asked tissue recipe or source , russian book scans etc.
If book scan comes , I will ocr and google translate in english and put to the articles.

Umut

 

[laroygreen]

Thanks a bunch Umut! I've already started to piece together things I need to give it a go and I've found that carbon printing is very similar to dye transfer (at least to me) and a lot of the techniques seem applicable as well (plus, information is much easier to come by!). I'm taking a very methodical (for me anyway) approach, and I've basically broken this process up into several "problems" and I will solve them independently: "darkroom", image registration, "chemistry", digital negative and exposure calibration. So far, this approach is going well as I was feeling overwhelmed trying to solve everything all at once. I am currently working at getting a room setup to start working (sink with plumbing, UV source, vacuum easel, etc) then I'll dive into image registration (easy to do, but my goal is to get a good solution that is inexpensive - in grey wind's video, he uses pins, but I think that would be a struggle if print size is increased). So far, enjoying the journey and I am already selecting images I want to print

 

[Tom1956]

I've been an offset printer since 1978. I'd love to get off the press, printing what amounts to landfill clutter. This is nothing but a variation of 4-color process, which I can do with one eye tied behind my back. I wonder if there would be a market on this to get off the press. Basically it looks like you'd need an imagesetter for the negs, and the various other supplies. Already have the platemaker, trays, and whatnot. Certainly don't need any learning-curve time to speak of. As I watch the process on video, it does sop up a lot of money on printing costs. You'd be lucky to crank out a couple a day, and do it right. Looks like one hard gig to market. Like trying to make a living selling buggy whips and vacuum cleaners door-to-door. Or would it?

 

[laroygreen]

No interest in making money from this and I really only plan to do a maximum of 3 prints per month (at least 1 per month) so volume isn't important either.