Capturing the feeling of warm in a B&W landscape?

MattKrull · Jul 20, 2015

I'm getting ready to head out on a trip that will see me spending a week touring about British Columbia. I usually bring mostly C41 film when I travel because I am easily seduced by colour (not always to the benefit of my photos). Space is limited, and I'm moving my film shooting a purely B&W optical workflow, so I decided for this trip I'll only bring B&W film (I will also have a digital body with me).

For city shooting and portraiture, B&W won't be a problem. It's the landscape stuff I'm worried about. Now, in fairness, I have never ever managed to make interesting landscape photos; but that doesn't mean I've stopped trying.

I've flipped through landscape images that I like, trying to understand why I like them. One thing I noticed today is that very few of them made the scene feel warm or inviting. Dark, ominus, cold, intimidating, powerful, silent, lifeless, those adjectives seem pretty easy to convey in a black and white landscape. But feelings of warmth, comfort, welcoming, vibrant, etc seem much much harder.

While searching I saw an photo of what I expect was a wonderful sunset in the mountains, shot low with the tall grass glowing. But without the colours it utterly lacked the feeling of warmth and peace I've come to expect from that type of photo. In fact, I found the response it got from me was simply "that photo would be better in colour". Not exactly the most enlightened response, but it's what I got.

Reflecting on it, I convey feelings of warmth, comfort, peace, etc entirely through colour/tone selection and people's facial experession / body language.

So, here's my question: If you shoot landscapes in B&W, and you aim for positive, uplifing, vibrant feelings, what are some of the things you do to reach that goal? I'm more interested in seeing/composition/lighting answers technical ones.

Alternatively, are there any B&W landscape images (online, links please) that bring about those feelings in you?

Rick A · Jul 20, 2015

The feeling of 'warmth' comes in the printing. Use warm tone paper/developer combination and toners.

Alan Klein · Jul 20, 2015

If you want positive uplifting vibrant feelings in your landscape shots, maybe you should continue to use color. BW seems to handle form and shape, relationships, etc. the best. If you're getting darker more foreboding shots with color, switch your shooting time to the magic hours after sunrise and before sunset.

jeffreyg · Jul 20, 2015

Plus 1 on the time of day. Location may also be a factor. Check this link. Dead Link Removed

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Doc W · Jul 20, 2015

What a great question! How to convey warmth and peace in a black and white landscape. I had never really thought about it consciously before because mostly I like landscapes that are somewhat cold. However, I often tone in selenium which gives a very subtle soft plum purple look, if you don't leave it in too long.

However, I think Rick A has right. It is in the printing, not the shooting. For really warm landscapes, I use warm tone paper. Perhaps you are thinking "colour" and then shooting black and white, a mistake that I sometimes make. Take a landscape that you like and explore it with warm tone paper and different types of toners. You will find a huge difference.

For online examples, take a look at the work of Tim Rudman. He is an awesome printer and a master of toning. http://www.timrudman.com/

jeffreyg · Jul 20, 2015

If the tone of the paper imparts the desired effect you could also consider platinum/palladium printing. You would have to enlarge your negatives though. I have made many pt/pd landscape prints but never actually thought about imparting a feeling of warmth although the images are of warm tones. My pt/pd prints from pinhole capture have a slight softness as well as the warm tones. I now wonder if those viewing those images experience a feeling of "warmth". Something I will have to check out.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

MattKing · Jul 20, 2015

Image tone, flare, high key, and diffusion all contribute to feelings of warmth.

ic-racer · Jul 20, 2015

Try warmtone paper. I have been using Ilford Warmtone lately and love it with B&W landscape. Also consider toning.

dpurdy · Jul 20, 2015

It is an interesting question that can be taken in more than one way. You said warm and inviting so I think you are using warm as in welcoming and friendly rather than yellowish. It is something I sometimes think about and finding ways to compose that allow a viewer a path in. Even if it is a real path. Or just part of the photo is not obstructed so that you could see if you were in the photo a safe or interesting way to enter. I think it is possible that warm yellowish color actually is too muggy and even claustrophobic for some photographers, they need cool tones to feel like it breathes. Other people do feel more comfortable with warmth in the print color.

Is this photo inviting? It has a walk path and is on warm tone paper..

Doc W · Jul 20, 2015

dpurdy, I am not the type to go for walks - there has to be a destination - but this photo is definitely inviting me to change my ways. Very nice, and makes the point very well.

Hatchetman · Jul 20, 2015

Not that this is a great photo, but it feels kind of "warm" to me.

MattKing · Jul 20, 2015

I get a feeling of warmth from this:

Bruce Osgood · Jul 20, 2015

MattKing said:
I get a feeling of warmth from this:

I would agree with you Matt. What paper and developer did you use? Straight print or Split grade?

Sirius Glass · Jul 20, 2015

If I feel that the landscape is warm I print it on warm tone paper.

MattKing · Jul 20, 2015

Bruce Osgood said:
I would agree with you Matt. What paper and developer did you use? Straight print or Split grade?

You know Bruce, I can't tell whether this was the scan I did of the toned print, or the negative scan I did and then tweaked to make it look like the toned print. I just grabbed a resized jpeg that was handy.

So there is a chance that this upload breaks the rules here on APUG. Mea Culpa if so.

It looks like the print though. It was printed on Oriental Seagull RC paper (pearl finish), developed in Polymax T developer. I then bleached it briefly, rinsed it, gave it some sepia toning (not to completion), fixed it, rinsed it, and finally selenium toned it until I noted a slight colour change (again, not to completion) before washing it.

Bruce Osgood · Jul 21, 2015

Matt,

The reason I asked was I've been using MG CLASSIC fiber/matt for a couple of years for everything. It's really been working for me with LPD developer. I have a negative that is over exposed and the scene is harshly lit from the side and I've all but given up trying to print it.

I was wondering if an alternative/warmer tone paper could ease the harshness, if so what would that be? The papers I used in the past are all but gone and I was looking for a shortcut to Wonderland.

Thanks,

MattKing · Jul 21, 2015

Bruce Osgood said:
Matt,

The reason I asked was I've been using MG CLASSIC fiber/matt for a couple of years for everything. It's really been working for me with LPD developer. I have a negative that is over exposed and the scene is harshly lit from the side and I've all but given up trying to print it.

I was wondering if an alternative/warmer tone paper could ease the harshness, if so what would that be? The papers I used in the past are all but gone and I was looking for a shortcut to Wonderland.

Thanks,

Bruce:

You might try printing it dark and then bleaching it back a bit.

Rick A · Jul 21, 2015

Ilford warm tone FB with selenium toner

Rook · Jul 21, 2015

I've had good results using a green (or yellow-green) filter for some b&w landscapes, as this tends to brighten up green foilage, producing a more airy, summer-like feel.

MattKrull · Jul 24, 2015

I think there has been too much focus on warm with regards to colour tone. I'm talking about the feelings raised in the viewer, and I find it hard to believe that we can't elicit those feelings purely through content and composition.

MattKing's comment that diffusion, high key, and flare all contribute to warmth is really good, and exaclty the sort of information I was looking for (as those same things are part of the 'warm' images I take in colour, just without the colour cast). Rook's talk of filters gives me a good idea for how to acheive it on my trip (I'm going to bring two filters, a green and an orange so I can get both airy and dramatic depending on what the weather throws at me).

Photography is intensly personal, and what generates a feeling of warmth in one person is different to another.

Hatchetman's example of the the palm trees in front of the ocean works for me. Where as I find dpurdy, Bruce Osgood, and Rick A's examples don't. Thankfully, I can at least say why those three examples don't work for me. Where I live, once the leaves are off the trees it is freaking cold. All three images show a lot of bare branches and leaves on the ground, so I read those as being late fall and cold.
I've got to say, Rick, your version of warm and welcoming is different from mine. Not sure a ruined building, leafless trees, deadfall, brambles of vines, and discarded pallets and oil drums are what I look at and think "I want to spend time there."

I'd like to keep this thread going, so as a thought exercise, imagine you've been tasked with taking a photo where you have no control over the final printing process. So, lets say you've been hired to take a landscape photo that will appear in a black and white magazine. If it helps we'll say this is an ad for a life-style SUV (the kind purchased by soccer moms, not guys who like to get muddy). The ad agency is unorthodox and is trying to sell the life-style of the brand, not a specific product, so you aren't allowed to include the vehicle itself, or even any people in the shot. The goal of the advertisement is to elicit positive uplifting emotions. Feelings of warmth, comfort, security, contentment, delight, youthfulness, and adventrue are all fair game. But you are stuck with a black and white image that will be printed in a magazine. How would you go about it? Where/what would you shoot? What time of day? What elements and effects (flare/diffusion/etc) would you include? What techniques would you emply (filters, long exposure, etc)?

Rick A · Jul 24, 2015

Merely an example of "warm tone" you are looking for "mood". I think that would need to be addressed in subject matter as well.

MattKing · Jul 24, 2015

SUV off in the distance and in a corner of a field of of undulating surfaces, covered with newly mowed hay, with the sun beating down from above.

Possibly using IR film, or maybe an orange filter.

Definitely printed in warm tones, and possibly with some flare.

Doc W · Jul 24, 2015

MattKrull said:
I'd like to keep this thread going, so as a thought exercise, imagine you've been tasked with taking a photo where you have no control over the final printing process.

Matt, I think there is something wrong with the overall argument you are making. You are assuming that stark cold black and white is the norm, hence you ask us to imagine that we have no control over the final printing process. But that final step is as important as the exposure of the original negative. We make choices in every step of the entire process and the colour of the paper in the final print as well as the toning step is as important as the type of negative and how it is developed.

You might be asking a question that is simply too subjective or cultural. As you said, you come from a place where bare branches have powerful connotations (for me too since I live in the same city). I can't imagine an emotionally warm landscape in November in Ontario because to me it is a contradiction. What evokes "warmth" in a photo for you is likely to be very different for other people.

ME Super · Jul 25, 2015

MattKing said:
SUV off in the distance and in a corner of a field of of undulating surfaces, covered with newly mowed hay, with the sun beating down from above.

Possibly using IR film, or maybe an orange filter.

Definitely printed in warm tones, and possibly with some flare.

This. This conveys warmth to me, probably because of subject matter.

Sirius Glass · Jul 25, 2015

Rick A said:
Merely an example of "warm tone" you are looking for "mood". I think that would need to be addressed in subject matter as well.

Once warm tone is eliminated from the discussion subject matter and lighting is the heart of warmth. Warm tone should be used only if subject matter and lighting are already producing a warm feeling.

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