Capa Photo

Anscojohn · Jan 27, 2008

Just read an essay in the New York Times on the acquisition of many of Robert Capa's Spanish Civil War negatives by Cornell Capa's organization. The writer averred that perhaps these would settle the question about whether or not Robert Capa's famous photo of the Loyalist soldier in death was staged or not.

I recall an article which showed the proof sheets from that roll, including the famous one. For the famous print, the neg had been cropped to show just the dead man falling. The full neg showed the trench from which it was taken. The article I read also traced the casualty lists for that sector and day, and even got the name of the Republican militiaman and that his identity had been vouched for by his family.

So, my question is: what is there to settle?
Or, perhaps the real question should be: is the essayist just ignorant?

John, Mount Vernon, VA USA

Ray Heath · Jan 27, 2008

g'day John, what an incredible find, the study of these rolls should tell a lot about Capa and his early work

as for "Ther Falling Soldier" there is much to speculate on. in the biography "Blood and Champagne" Alex Kershaw raises many questions about this image. did Capa set it up and shoot it more than once? did Capa set it up at what they thought was a same time and the guy really got killed? if he set it up and the guy died did Capa forever after feel guilty for his death?

who knows? who would we believe? maybe the negatives will shed some light

Ray

KenR · Jan 27, 2008

Dead soldier

At the recent International Center of Photography exhibit on the work of Capa and his wife, Greta Taro, they had enlargements of both the famous photo and the next frame which shows a very dead appearing soldier wearing clothes very much like those of the soldier who got hit. If Capa staged the scene, he must also have brought a make up person with him onto the "shoot".

catem · Jan 28, 2008

The article literally sent shivers down my spine - well worth the read. A great find.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/arts/design/27kenn.html

BobNewYork · Jan 28, 2008

I cannot for the life of me recall where I read or where I heard this but it was thought that this image was BOTH staged and real. Capa had been staging shots of a soldier going over the top. This had grabbed the interest of a sharpshooter on the Republican side who shot the soldier "posing" for Capa. So yes, the shot was staged; and yes the soldier was really shot. Capa was apparently mortified.
If I can figure out my "source" I'll post it.

Cornell Capa is still active in the International Center of Photography which he founded; and still signs every graduation diploma personally. My son took a full time programme there and has one - it's pretty cool!

copake_ham · Jan 28, 2008

BobNewYork said:
I cannot for the life of me recall where I read or where I heard this but it was thought that this image was BOTH staged and real. Capa had been staging shots of a soldier going over the top. This had grabbed the interest of a sharpshooter on the Republican side who shot the soldier "posing" for Capa. So yes, the shot was staged; and yes the soldier was really shot. Capa was apparently mortified.
If I can figure out my "source" I'll post it.

Cornell Capa is still active in the International Center of Photography which he founded; and still signs every graduation diploma personally. My son took a full time programme there and has one - it's pretty cool!

I believe that the soldier who was shot (or not) was on the Republican side (which is where Capa's sympathies were).

Folks often confuse the fact that the Republicans were the government side in the Spanish Civil War (the Spanish Republic) and the Loyalists (loyal to the deposed monarchy) were the insurgents!

I also saw this error in a production of Carmen once by the New York City Opera. They staged it as during the Spanish Civil War - and had Carmen initially hanging out with a bunch of Republicans who were portrayed as the rebels! They too had "reversed" the status of the government and the insurgents.

Of course, the fact that the insurgents were called Loyalists - and the fact that they won - may explain the ongoing confusion as to who was what.

BobNewYork · Jan 28, 2008

Gotcha George. It's why I failed O Level History in High School! I actually had in my mind that it was back asswards - and then outdid myself!!

Story of MY life!!

John Koehrer · Jan 28, 2008

Didn't Franco stage a coup and overthrow the monarchy? So then Republican = Fascist?

copake_ham · Jan 28, 2008

John Koehrer said:
Didn't Franco stage a coup and overthrow the monarchy? So then Republican = Fascist?

Franco (Loyalist or Nationalist) staged a coup against the Republic to restore the Monarchy. And yes, the Loyalists were the Fascists; the Republicans (via the Popular Front) were democratic center and left including Socialists and Communists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War

BobNewYork · Jan 28, 2008

But Juan Carlos didn't attain the throne until after Franco pegged out? I'm totally confused now. (Not that that's unusual

)

copake_ham · Jan 28, 2008

BobNewYork said:
But Juan Carlos didn't attain the throne until after Franco pegged out? I'm totally confused now. (Not that that's unusual)

As I recall, Franco deemed that Juan Carlos's father was "unreliable" and he remained in exile although Franco did agree to the eventual restoration of the monarchy via the son, Juan Carlos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Juan_Carlos

Two days after Franco died, Juan Carlos did ascend to the throne and proved to be a constitutional monarch agreeable to the restoration of the democracy. The Nationalists (now Conservatives) retained power in the first post-Franco election after restoration but since then power has democratically shifted back and forth between them and the social democrats.

The key is that Spain remains a constitutional monarchy (much like Great Britain, Norway, Sweden etc.) - NOT a republic (such as France).

BobNewYork · Jan 28, 2008

Gotcha

Will S · Jan 28, 2008

There is an excellent article by Richard Whelan on this at:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/capa_r.html

And yes, he was staging some shots, then the fascists saw them and opened up a machine gun on them (at least, as I remember the article, I didn't re-read it just now.)

Thanks,

Will

eddym · Jan 28, 2008

copake_ham said:
As I recall, Franco deemed that Juan Carlos's father was "unreliable" and he remained in exile although Franco did agree to the eventual restoration of the monarchy via the son, Juan Carlos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Juan_Carlos

Two days after Franco died, Juan Carlos did ascend to the throne and proved to be a constitutional monarch agreeable to the restoration of the democracy. The Nationalists (now Conservatives) retained power in the first post-Franco election after restoration but since then power has democratically shifted back and forth between them and the social democrats.

The key is that Spain remains a constitutional monarchy (much like Great Britain, Norway, Sweden etc.) - NOT a republic (such as France).

Umm... will this be on the final exam?

BobNewYork · Jan 28, 2008

No. That would be Franco's inside seam measurement!!

copake_ham · Jan 28, 2008

eddym said:
Umm... will this be on the final exam?

Well, it was certainly a bit of a digression - wasn't it?

But if you clicked on the earlier post with the Wikipedia link to the Spanish Civil War - up pops, yes indeed, the photo of the Falling Soldier.

cowanw · Jan 28, 2008

Spain became a Republic in 1931.
After 1947, Franco was the titular regent for a monarch who was unnamed. So as not to loose power the monarch remained unnamed until Franco died.
I also remember a news article that pointed out that Capa was in front of the soldier and therefore was shooting his camera to the rear. There are some other shots of this soldier from other angles. sort of a mystery for that writer from the New York times like Fenton's cannonballs.
Regards
Bill

copake_ham · Jan 28, 2008

cowanw said:
....So as not to loose power the monarch remained unnamed until Franco died....

Well actually:

"In 1969, Juan Carlos was officially designated heir and was given the new title of Prince of Spain (not the traditional Prince of Asturias)....."

"Near death, on 30 October, 1975, Franco gave full control to Juan Carlos. On 22 November, following Franco's death, the Cortes Generales proclaimed Juan Carlos King of Spain and on November 27, Juan Carlos ascended the Spanish throne with an anointing ceremony called Holy Spirit Mass which was the equivalent to a coronation at the Jerónimos Church in Madrid."

papagene · Jan 28, 2008

OK, I'll take the bait...
All this talk of Franco reminds me of Saturday Night Live's "Weekend Update" and the famous line "This just in... Franco still dead!"

Sorry, couldn't help myself. :rolleyes:

gene

MattKing · Jan 29, 2008

In my youth, I worked on the student newspaper at the University of British Columbia. It was a fairly major undertaking, because we published three times weekly, with editions that ranged between 8 and 64 pages, and an editorial to ad ratio which was at least twice the norm for commercial publications, not to mention an almost entirely volunteer staff (no salary, and not in any way an adjunct to any educational program - there was no journalism school at UBC at the time).

It was a lot of work, and a lot of it was fueled mostly on as much idealism, as anything else.

There was a definite left-wing slant (it was the 70s) and there was a regular need to fill small openings on a page.

At that time, Franco was alive, but definitely not well.

A favorite choice for those small space filling pieces (maybe an inch or an inch and one-half of column type) - a fake wire service story stating boldly - "Franco is Not Dead Yet"

I truly believe that Saturday Night Live stole it from us.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programme...

Matt

P.S. In 1979 I spent a few weeks in Spain. The memorials to the Spanish Civil war and the major participants therein were some of the most amazing things I have ever seen.

copake_ham · Jan 29, 2008

MattKing said:
.....

P.S. In 1979 I spent a few weeks in Spain. The memorials to the Spanish Civil war and the major participants therein were some of the most amazing things I have ever seen.

In 1979 - all of the memorials would have been for the Fascists/Nationalists/Loayalists.

The "struggle" to remember the Republicans still goes on to this day:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...63&scp=1&sq=Spanish+Civil+War+Memorial&st=nyt

See:

"I recently drove the 45 minutes to revisit Santa Cruz del Valle de los Caídos, the Valley of the Fallen, Franco's most megalomaniacal monument. The highway passed by bulls, those reared for bullfights, grazing in green fields, then abruptly rose into snow and gloom. During the 1950s thousands of prison laborers tunneled hundreds of yards into a solid granite mountain ridge to build one of the world's biggest and most lugubrious basilicas and a Civil War memorial, beneath a cross nearly 50 stories high...."

During Franco's time - no monuments were built to honor the Republicans - those who had defended the legitimate rule of law.

catem · Jan 29, 2008

I like the bit in The Times article which suggests the possibility that 'The Falling Soldier' was taken by Taro.

So perhaps the title of this thread should be Capa (?) Photo

MattKing · Jan 29, 2008

I agree.

But they were still amazing.

A mixture of politics and religion unlike anything I have ever seen.

Matt

copake_ham said:
In 1979 - all of the memorials would have been for the Fascists/Nationalists/Loayalists.

The "struggle" to remember the Republicans still goes on to this day:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...63&scp=1&sq=Spanish+Civil+War+Memorial&st=nyt

See:

"I recently drove the 45 minutes to revisit Santa Cruz del Valle de los Caídos, the Valley of the Fallen, Franco's most megalomaniacal monument. The highway passed by bulls, those reared for bullfights, grazing in green fields, then abruptly rose into snow and gloom. During the 1950s thousands of prison laborers tunneled hundreds of yards into a solid granite mountain ridge to build one of the world's biggest and most lugubrious basilicas and a Civil War memorial, beneath a cross nearly 50 stories high...."

During Franco's time - no monuments were built to honor the Republicans - those who had defended the legitimate rule of law.

ehparis · Feb 3, 2008

For those interested in the negatives the best link I've seen is on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/01/war.photos/index.html

Capa Photo

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