Can't Find Super Ikonta 532/16 Information

Ariston · May 4, 2020

I picked up a Super Ikonta cheap because the front of the viewfinder is cracked. I like to know the history of these things, but I cannot find information about this.

From what I read, the serial number is on the side of the back plate (exterior) embossed in the leatherette. Mine says H15476* - but I can find no list that even resembles that number.

It has a Zeiss Opton Tessar 2.8 lens with a serial number of 25825 on front, and it has a Compur Rapid shutter. I don't see any serial number for the shutter.

If anybody knows where I can find info about this, I'd appreciate it. Am I looking at the wrong spot for the serial numbers?

jimjm · May 4, 2020

You can get an approximate date of the camera via the lens serial number here. Zeiss-Opton numbers are listed at the bottom, so yours might be an early post-war sample from '46 or '47.
There's some more good info here and here.
If you need to have it serviced, Jurgen at Certo6 has done good work for me in the past.

Donald Qualls · May 4, 2020

I've got one of those. Uncoated Tessar, and 11 shots on 120, because it uses the 6x9 number track to start the film. I modified mine (made a 12th notch in the counter wheel) and start the film at the second pair of dots leading into the number 1, in order to get the first frame a little closer to the film start -- haven't yet run one off the film on either end (but it takes a certain amount of nerve to file a new notch in the brass on the counter wheel).

Ariston · May 4, 2020

Thanks guys. Donald, how is the contrast on that uncoated lens? It's going to be a bit before I can run a roll of film through. Based on what Jim posted I have an early post war chrome version with an uncoated lens. It does indeed list 11 shots on the counter.

StepheKoontz · May 4, 2020

A yellow or orange filter really helps a lot with uncoated lenses giving B&W film a little snap.

Donald Qualls · May 4, 2020

Honestly, there's far more difference in contrast available by minor variations in developing than the difference between an uncoated Tessar and a coated (or even multi-coated) one. And depending what and how you shoot, you might like the little extra flare from the uncoated lens -- it'll fill in shadows a little in certain lighting, and softer contrast is usually preferred for portraits of women.

For myself, I've got uncoated Tessar and Tessar-type lenses on three of my favorite cameras -- my Super Ikonta 532/16, my Ideal 9x12 plate camera (actually have two of those, 13.5 cm and 15 cm, both f/4.5), and a Voigtlander version in my 1927 Rollfilmkamera. I think the only coated Tessars I own are on my Rollei 35 (original f/3.5) and my SX-70 Model 2 (f/6.3?), both the front-focusing version. Very hard to compare across such wildly different cameras...

jimjm · May 4, 2020

I've got a '38 Super Ikonta B 532/16 with the uncoated Tessar and it's actually a good performer. Seems to me to have a similar look as the 75/3.5 Tessar on my Rolleiflex.
I've used several Zeiss folders, and their strong points are the bellows durability and the rigidity of the strut mechanism.
As Donald mentioned, a filter could help with contrast in certain situations. Zeiss made clip-on filters which attach to the front of the lens.

This one's shot on Fuji Acros 100, developed in HC-110, and is just a scan from a small test print:

And one photo you might find interesting - Super Ikontas in the lower right:

Ariston · May 4, 2020

This one looks good, and the shutter seems spot on at all speeds. The shutter button up top is seized, so I had to fire it on the lens. The winding stopped at each frame, then after the 11th kept going. I can't get it to stop at the frames any more.

I've tried pressing down on the counter to set it to #1, but it doesn't budge unless winding. I'm gjessing it won't work witnout the top shutter button or so ething.

wvo · May 5, 2020

Ariston said:
This one looks good, and the shutter seems spot on at all speeds. The shutter button up top is seized, so I had to fire it on the lens. The winding stopped at each frame, then after the 11th kept going. I can't get it to stop at the frames any more.

I've tried pressing down on the counter to set it to #1, but it doesn't budge unless winding. I'm gjessing it won't work witnout the top shutter button or so ething.

1. Turn the film winding key as far as it will go.
2.Cock the shutter
3.Depress shutter release hard.
4. Press down on counter disco and turn past 11
Instructions are not clear if steps three and four are sequential or done together.

I left my camera sit a year thinking I had broken it before finding these instructions.

See Mike Butkus camera manuals for the Super Ikonta 2 1/4 x 2 1/4.

Good luck.

Ariston · May 5, 2020

wvo said:
1. Turn the film winding key as far as it will go.
2.Cock the shutter
3.Depress shutter release hard.
4. Press down on counter disco and turn past 11
Instructions are not clear if steps three and four are sequential or done together.

I left my camera sit a year thinking I had broken it before finding these instructions.

See Mike Butkus camera manuals for the Super Ikonta 2 1/4 x 2 1/4.

Good luck.

Hey WVO, the film winding key never stops. The shutter release looks like it is stuck in the down position. At first, I was firing it with a pin into the cable release mount, but that stopped working after I wound past 11 (it had been stopping at each frame). I will have to double-check it again. Thanks for the information, and please let me know if you have any more suggestions.

Donald Qualls · May 5, 2020

The shutter release in the body won't unlock until the film advance has stopped. If you haven't started the counter, it won't lock, and the body release will stay locked. This is double exposure prevention (though of course you can still release the shutter at the front).

Ariston · May 5, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
The shutter release in the body won't unlock until the film advance has stopped. If you haven't started the counter, it won't lock, and the body release will stay locked. This is double exposure prevention (though of course you can still release the shutter at the front).

Do I have to load film for this? I don't see a mechanism to sense whether film is in the chamber or not. I can press the counter dial down, but it does not move - however, it does move with the film winding. I am sure I am doing something wrong, despite reading the manual from Butkus' site.

EDIT: I should mention that when I was able to initially fire it with a cable release, the button would not go up or down.

Ariston · May 5, 2020

The manual says to "turn the film winding key to its limit stop," but it never stops. I really think my shutter button is stuck down and preventing this somehow.

Dan Daniel · May 5, 2020

Ariston said:
The manual says to "turn the film winding key to its limit stop," but it never stops. I really think my shutter button is stuck down and preventing this somehow.

Trace back the linkages that run from inside the camera to the shutter release on the front. There's a chance that you'll be able to push it backwards and it will ripple back up to the shutter release/frame counter area and get it back in the right position?

Donald Qualls · May 5, 2020

If the counter dial has gone past 11 (on an unmodified camera) the advance "freewheels" to allow winding up the tail paper onto the spool. If you've loaded film and turned to "1" with the ruby window, you need to turn the dial to "1" as well (you may have to press down on the dial to do so, I don't recall immediately). That should unlock the body release.

Note that the body release has double exposure prevention; if you tried to fire without first cocking the shutter, you probably got "locked out". You can fire the frame by locating and operating the release on the actual shutter, or the front end of the linkage on the bed (this is also how you'd make intentional double exposures). Winding on will also unlock the body release, of course, but at the cost of a lost frame.

If this still doesn't fix you up, let me know; I can finish the roll in the camera and verify the correct operation.

Edit: Okay, I took some cat portraits, and I can verify that aside from having one stop after passing 11 (because of my 12 frame modification) mine works exactly as above, including needing to push the dial down for it to catch at 1 after loading. You may also need to advance the winding key slightly after the dial catches, in order to unlock the body release (possibly another reason for only 11 exposures, beyond less reliable availability of film with the 6x6 number track at the time the camera was designed).

Ariston · May 5, 2020

Dan - thanks, I tried that, but interior of the top plate is not accessible from the bellows side or the film chamber.

Donald - thank you for shooting yours to help confirm the operation. Your description of how to hold the counter down to get it to catch was much clearer than whatever I read in the manual. I got it to catch again by doing that, and I can now use a cable release to fire it in the button on the top plate. The button itself is stuck, though, so I have to use a cable, which is fine.

So my impression was that you load the film to the correct point using the ruby window, then press down on the counter and turn it to #1. But I can't manually change the counter like that... it only turns with the film wind. Am I misinterpreting this? I want to make sure I load the film right.

I'm sorry for my ignorance. I have two other folders that I have no problems with - one of which is the Zeiss Contessa, which is very similar to this camera.

Donald Qualls · May 5, 2020

You can only manually move the counter after it has run past 11 and into the "freewheeling" region (I found that mine actually will run through 1 and up to 4 or 5 by the time I get all the tail paper wound onto the takeup spool). After that, you load the next film and (canonically) with the number 1 showing in the ruby window, push down and turn the dial -- and once it catches, you're in the cycle of shoot and wind, shoot and wind until you go past 11 again (even if the camera is empty, you have to cycle this way to get the dial to advance). The winding key only unlocks after the body release has been pressed, and the body release only unlocks after the camera has been wound to the stop.

I think a cable release may bypass double exposure interlock -- I final verified things by reloading mine, so can't easily check at the moment. If I'm correct, that would mean your double exposure interlock is jammed in some way (assuming the dial has caught and you're still able to wind on, which is normally only permitted after pressing the body release). If your dial has caught, and you're able to wind on after releasing with the cable, but still can't press the body release after winding on, there's something wrong under the top plate.

At the time I modified mine, I was pretty well "in tune" with camera mechanics, having cleaned a number of leaf shutters and done other repairs over the previous couple years. I haven't looked under the hood of my 532/16 in more than a dozen years, however, or repaired anything else with the kind of complexity cameras have (I repair power tools for a living, but they rapidly price out of the market if they need the kind of repairs some of us with do for our own cameras -- and further, most now are designed with economy of manufacture more in mind than ability to service after sale). All that to say, if it winds without depressing the body release, and won't release via the body release once wound, I recommend at the least getting advice from someone who's fresh on these, or considering sending it to a reputable repair shop -- and I can't recommend one, because I've done my own repairs for anything that wasn't electronic in nature for my entire adult life.

Ariston · May 5, 2020

I think you may be right about the interlock being messed up. Or it may need lube, I don't know, but the counter will not turn on its own, even after it is in free wheelin' mode past 11. The shutter button also does not move. I am going to send it to Zacks when I get a chance. I can't use it until I can set the counter on the first frame, unless I want to lose film.

Thank you so much for all the help.

albertphot · May 6, 2020

Hi, I wonder if somebody knows where to find a repair manual of a Super Ikonta B? I found some small bits of info on how to repair some parts of that camera on youtube but nothing complete...

Donald Qualls · May 6, 2020

I think I posted some information and photos when I modified mine, but I don't recall whether it was here or photo.net, nor am I certain I did it. The shutter's a Compur-Rapid, nothing exotic, so it's just the advance and double exposure interlock in the top of the body, as well as the RF, that you need to be concerned with (and the working part of the RF is on the lens standard, a pair of contra-rotating prisms geared to the front element rotation; what's under the top plate is adjustable, at least for vertical alignment, but fixed in operation).

Dan Daniel · May 6, 2020

Not sure if this will help- it's a 531/16. You can look over this man's collection of camera repair info on Flickr and he might have a 532/16. If you click on each photo there will be some text underneath describing what is going on. Hans Kerensky is a life saver.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29504544@N08/albums/72157612861851465

I found that simply studying the mechanism in action showed me what i needed to know. Its a unique mechanism, but not particularly complicated once you get a handle on the way the different systems interact.

Donald Qualls · May 6, 2020

I can immediately see that the dial on that one is different, but the overall mechanism (including the body release lock) appears very similar to what I recall from my 532/16. I went through all five pages of his albums and didn't see anything more relevant to the 532/16 than the 531/16.

albertphot · May 7, 2020

Thanks Donald and Dan, I'll take a look at it. My problem isn't the shutter but a almost stuck lens. I can't focus because of the dried up grease. So I was wondering how and how much, I've to unscrew to get to the helical ring? I've asked a repairman but he wouldn't look at it because, as he told me, if he would break something he might not get his hand on a spare part... I got two two Super ikonta's a BX 533/16 and a B 532/16 both have the same problem.

Donald Qualls · May 7, 2020

Sounds like an email to Jake's might be in order. They handle old cameras all the time.

Ariston · May 7, 2020

I'm going to be sending mine to Zacks. He is unsure if he has the front lens for the viewfinder. If anyone keeps a parts camera around and is willing to sell the front lens of the viewfinder, let me know.

Can't Find Super Ikonta 532/16 Information

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency