Canonet QL17 tearing sprockets

Chiqchiquah · Jan 26, 2023

Hi there

I shoot bulk loaded 500t and 250d and it seems that the bulk loaded film has a tendency to tear whereas the factory loaded film is fine.
So my question is if anyone knows of a good way to load film so the camera has an easier time advancing it. I have a couple of posts in here, but they seem to just conclude that it’s a bad idea to use bulk film in QL-cameras and I think that is a lazy conclusion since I have been to finish whole roles of it.
Could it be something with the leader size? Is it better to not cut a leader at all? Is it the loader that is loading it with too much tension? The questions just line up.

At the moment I use a Comtutrol loader.

xkaes · Jan 26, 2023

I'm unclear if you are having tearing problems when loading the camera with film or when advancing the film.

One problem I have had with reloading 35mm cassettes is that sometimes the film/cassette/felt can be too tight and cause problem in advancing the film. As to leaders, that might be a problem, but I've never had a problem with and camera going leader-less. When I do try a leader, it often tears right off anyway.

Donald Qualls · Jan 26, 2023

Does this happen with short loads (say, 12-20 frames) or only with a full 36+ in the cassette? I ask because some bulk loading cassettes get tight when full, and the extra tension could be causing issues.

More likely, however, the clutch that lets the takeup spool compensate as the film builds up thickness (so it doesn't pull too hard/far when the stroke starts to shorten) is dragging, likely just needs cleaned and relubed as appropriate. I have the same problem with my Rollei 35, someday I may either try to fix it or send it somewhere (I've only had the camera since the mid-1970s...).

Chiqchiquah · Jan 26, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
Does this happen with short loads (say, 12-20 frames) or only with a full 36+ in the cassette? I ask because some bulk loading cassettes get tight when full, and the extra tension could be causing issues.

More likely, however, the clutch that lets the takeup spool compensate as the film builds up thickness (so it doesn't pull too hard/far when the stroke starts to shorten) is dragging, likely just needs cleaned and relubed as appropriate. I have the same problem with my Rollei 35, someday I may either try to fix it or send it somewhere (I've only had the camera since the mid-1970s...).

I haven't tried shorter rolls except that when it happens I have occasionally succesfully just cut the film where the tear happened and shot the rest of the film (usually 20-30 frames), so maybe I should just start shooting shorter rolls. It mostly happens at about 5-15 so not late in the roll. So if I survive past 15 or so I'm usually home safe.

Chiqchiquah · Jan 26, 2023

xkaes said:
I'm unclear if you are having tearing problems when loading the camera with film or when advancing the film.

One problem I have had with reloading 35mm cassettes is that sometimes the film/cassette/felt can be too tight and cause problem in advancing the film. As to leaders, that might be a problem, but I've never had a problem with and camera going leader-less. When I do try a leader, it often tears right off anyway.

It's when I'm advancing and it always happens between 5-15, so if I get past 15 or so I'm usually safe.

xkaes · Jan 26, 2023

I'd check your reloadable cassettes. If they are the least bit bent or misaligned in some way -- easy to happen -- that can cause an intermittent problem, being too tight on the film, etc.

reddesert · Jan 26, 2023

I am sure that I've shot bulk loaded film in a Canonet QL and didn't have any problems. However, I also never over loaded the film cassette (I liked a <=35 exposure roll because the negative pages I use held 7x5 frames), and didn't have any issues with tightness in the wind. For a while many of my bulk loads were reusing commercially loaded cassettes by taping the film to the end of the previous factory loaded film and winding back in through the light trap. You might try this as it is less vulnerable to bending than a reloadable cassette. You have to keep the felt clean and not push the luck of reusing it too many times.

Donald Qualls · Jan 27, 2023

I've shot bulk loads in my own QL17 GIII as well, 36-40 frame loads in plastic screw-top cassettes and Kalt metal snap-caps, and never a problem (Fomapan 100 and 400). Likelihood is there's something needing cleaning or adjustment in the advance or counter mechanism -- I just mentioned the cassette binding issue as an easy thing to check.

UnderwoodPhoto · Jan 30, 2023

OP is using ECN film. The sprocket holes are slightly different shape and smaller. This combined with the square cut teeth in the QL will do this. My QL does (did) same before rounding off the edges. A tight cassette does not help any.

StrangestStranger · Feb 4, 2023

I had this exact same problem with bulk loaded film and my QL17. My solution was to stop using bulk loaded film with it and I've never had a problem again. I have plenty of other cameras for my bulk loaded film.

Kino · Feb 4, 2023

Motion picture film intended for camera use has B&H perforations (barrel shaped) spaced at .1866 inches/4.7396 mm pitch (trailing edge of one perf to the trailing edge of the next perforation), but most still film has KS (Kodak Standard) perforations which are more rectangular and probably spaced at positive pitch of .1870 inches/4.7498 mm.

If the transport sprocket on the camera is full fitting for KS perfs, it probably will "spear" the perforation and cut into the sides of the perforation when advanced with some tension. If the teeth on the transport sprocket protrude enough, it can even snag the side of the perf and cause it to start to wrap around.

Not much you can do about it other than file down the teeth (not recommended) or just not use B&H perforated film...

Canonet QL17 tearing sprockets

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