Canon QL17 Question

ZENGHOST · Oct 10, 2014

So I kind of impulse bought a Canon QL17 GIII on eBay and it showed up today. I was happy because the condition looked good and it came really fast. The problem is I just realized that it is missing the "GIII" badge. Were there any GIII's that came without the badge? I'm guessing not but I thought I'd ask anyway. This is the auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/231346969331

Both the title and description say GIII but I totally missed the lack of the GIII badge. It was an "as-is" listing and there are clear photos so it's my fault for not looking closer, but as irritated as I am with myself I'm also pretty irritated at the seller. Luckily I didn't pay through the nose but still pretty annoyed that it isn't what was advertised.

I'm just going to chalk it up to a lesson that even after 15 years I still need to pay better attention to the listings, but I'm curious what other people would do in my position. Although it'd also be nice to hear that mine is a GIII that is just missing the badge but I'm guessing that's not going to happen.

pdeeh · Oct 10, 2014

In your position, I'd be irritated with myself, then I'd put some film in it and go and take photographs with it.

If the text of the listing contradicted the photographs ... well it's up to you whether you want to complain to the seller after having read the listing, looked at the photos, agreed to buy, paid and received the goods. Depends how much time and effort you want to spend after the event. I'd personally just "suck it up"

Xmas · Oct 10, 2014

noop there were two cameras...

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134590

unless you have the missing bits...

Kirks518 · Oct 10, 2014

As Xmas said - No. No GIII Badge, no GIII.

Now for the good news.

File an Item Not as Described case. As-is or not, ebay will stand by you on this one, and you'll get your money back. Very simple to resolve.

ToddB · Oct 10, 2014

Hmm.. I own a QL17 GIII is there any residue from any sort of glue that might indicate the badge being place?

adelorenzo · Oct 10, 2014

For that price I'd just keep it and make some pictures with it. It would not be worth the hassle to me and, don't forget, it's still a good camera.

From what I've seen (having just bought one, yet to arrive) the GIII's tend to sell for $80+in good condition.

pdeeh · Oct 10, 2014

Kirks518 said:
File an Item Not as Described case. As-is or not, ebay will stand by you on this one, and you'll get your money back. Very simple to resolve.

That'd be pretty harsh on the seller if they made an honest mistake, especially as the OP admits he failed to apply the principle of caveat emptor properly.

narsuitus · Oct 10, 2014

ZENGHOST said:
... I'm curious what other people would do in my position.

I normally shoot with the Canon name and model number covered on my Canonete. Therefore, if I were in your position, I would keep the older non-GIII version.

However, if I had my heart set on the later GIII version; not the earlier non-GIII version; I would complain and ask for a refund or a price reduction because the item was not accurately described.

https://flic.kr/p/8XWY9C

Kirks518 · Oct 10, 2014

pdeeh said:
That'd be pretty harsh on the seller if they made an honest mistake, especially as the OP admits he failed to apply the principle of caveat emptor properly.

I really don't think it's a harsh way to go. The OP bought something in good faith based on the item's description. honest mistake or not, the seller got his money because the buyer thought he was buying X, but in fact was buying Y. It's not a big deal as far as ebay goes, and it happens pretty frequently.

IMO, no reason the OP should have to settle for something he wasn't looking to buy because the seller misrepresented the item.

Just sayin'

pdeeh · Oct 10, 2014

Reread the OP.
It's clear that the images on the listing showed one thing and the description another.
It's hardly misrepresentation, although it is careless and confusing.
The buyer has to bear some responsibility.
Opening a case before even bothering to contact the seller is extremely heavy-handed.
Just sayin'

adelorenzo · Oct 10, 2014

narsuitus said:
https://flic.kr/p/8XWY9C

Narsuitus: Which hood is that on your Canonet? Is is the original one? I'm looking for one that will fit mine, and the original Canon ones are pricey.

Fixcinater · Oct 10, 2014

Not a whole lot changed on the GIII vs. regular QL17 if it's the smaller body version (which it is).

That's a decent price if it's got a clean lens and is all working so I'd just shoot it.

Kirks518 · Oct 10, 2014

The problem is, once an item is marked shipped, and the transaction complete, the only way to contact the seller is by opening a case. In the drop down box, it gives you the option of 'Contact Seller', select that, and ebay's system gives you the options of:

1) I have a question about the using the item or I want to send a message to the seller
2) I didn't receive my item
3) I need to return my item
4) I received an item that was not as described
5) Request to cancel this order

So which one is the most correct? #4, which will automatically open a case, and then the seller has ample opportunity to resolve the issue, whether it be through a discount or a return. If the seller does not correct/address the problem, then it becomes an issue.

Pictures are only part of the description, what is written typically is what ebay will go by. Ebay is not a 'Buyer Beware' format from ebay's standpoint.

FYI, I'm a heavy power seller, and have been on ebay for 15 years. This really is not a big deal, but should be corrected by the seller in some way.

Xmas · Oct 10, 2014

pdeeh said:
Reread the OP.
It's clear that the images on the listing showed one thing and the description another.
It's hardly misrepresentation, although it is careless and confusing.
The buyer has to bear some responsibility.
Opening a case before even bothering to contact the seller is extremely heavy-handed.
Just sayin'

Given the difference is a:

- badge
- battery test button
- flash cover

You need to get blood from stone

The test button only works with zinc cells which are instant death most times. It won't work well with Shockety diodes.

The seller may not have been aware there were two models. How many of us knew there were two models?

If it works ok I'd take photos.

qpoiz · Oct 10, 2014

I would keep the camera and contact the seller without opening a case. I would ask for a partial refund, as I did with my Yashica A. The seller described the camera as in full working condition. Even went as far as saying that the shutter speeds were on point. They were not. The shutter closed slower than molasses. I contacted the seller, showed him a video, and we agreed on a partial refund sent to me via paypal.

ZENGHOST · Oct 10, 2014

Thanks for the responses, everyone. If I were to open up any sort of case I would definitely contact the seller first, but at this point I don't see myself opening a case. I'm likely going to talk to him about it just to see what they have to say but I don't think I'll ask for a partial refund. Maybe if it had been a higher price, I would have. I believe it's pretty much 50/50 blame-wise, and I don't think the seller did it on purpose, but I also agree that eBay would probably side with me based on the erroneous description. I understand that there's very little difference between the GIII and non, but I skipped over a lot of non-GIII auctions because I specifically wanted a GIII, if only to have the most recent version. I don't think I'd have been as irritated if I hadn't been looking for a GIII for a long time and was just excited to bid on one in my price range. It is still a good camera and I intend to use it--hopefully everything works, or else that will be an even bigger disappointment. So far I just dry fired the shutter and the seals look like they're going but for the most part still intact. I appreciate the comments, I'm glad to hear that my thoughts weren't completely out of line.

If anyone's got any tips they want to share about using the camera I'd love to hear them as well. I'm still a total film noob, but been buying lots of stuff to play with so I can learn. The day before I received the QL17, I got my Minolta Hi-matic E in the mail so I'll be playing with both of them once I take care of the battery things. These things have been pretty fun so far.

Thanks, everyone.

Randalcav · Oct 10, 2014

I just took my GIII QL (1972) to Acadia National Park last month. I bought it about 5 years ago and I received a bonus with it, a Canolite D Flash Unit. I like the way this package looks on my display shelf. I don't even have a battery in it. I love shooting with it on the fly and sometimes with my Pentax Zone VI Spotmeter. You have almost the same camera, Very light, quiet, good optics and a nice rangefinder. I often carry this camera along with my Bronica SQa. Forget about the auction deal, this was meant to be. Get out and have fun with it!

Fixcinater · Oct 10, 2014

My thoughts on using it:

Lens isn't super contrasty at f/1.7 but it's pretty good at resolving details. I'd prefer more resolution over more contrast, so I'm ok with using it at f/1.7. Some folks are not. Color film will show that lack of contrast as light saturation, so be prepared for that if you throw Portra 400 in there and are expecting Velvia levels of punch.

Lens flare can show itself in back- and side-lit scenes. Figuring out some way to get a hood on there is a good priority after assuring yourself that it is all working. The factory Canonet hood is rare and usually costs more than you paid for your camera, so other options start to look attractive. Step up ring to 49mm is one.

narsuitus · Oct 10, 2014

adelorenzo said:
Narsuitus: Which hood is that on your Canonet? Is is the original one?

It is a Canon Lens Hood 5 which I think is the original hood.

ZENGHOST · Oct 11, 2014

Randalcav said:
I just took my GIII QL (1972) to Acadia National Park last month. I bought it about 5 years ago and I received a bonus with it, a Canolite D Flash Unit. I like the way this package looks on my display shelf. I don't even have a battery in it. I love shooting with it on the fly and sometimes with my Pentax Zone VI Spotmeter. You have almost the same camera, Very light, quiet, good optics and a nice rangefinder. I often carry this camera along with my Bronica SQa. Forget about the auction deal, this was meant to be. Get out and have fun with it!

Thanks, Randalcav. I also like the look of the Canolite D flash and have lost auctions with that combo. Do you ever use the flash? I generally don't use any flash with my film cameras. I plan to still enjoy it since I still consider it a decent deal (assuming it functions).

Fixcinater said:
My thoughts on using it:

Lens isn't super contrasty at f/1.7 but it's pretty good at resolving details. I'd prefer more resolution over more contrast, so I'm ok with using it at f/1.7. Some folks are not. Color film will show that lack of contrast as light saturation, so be prepared for that if you throw Portra 400 in there and are expecting Velvia levels of punch.

Lens flare can show itself in back- and side-lit scenes. Figuring out some way to get a hood on there is a good priority after assuring yourself that it is all working. The factory Canonet hood is rare and usually costs more than you paid for your camera, so other options start to look attractive. Step up ring to 49mm is one.

thanks for the comments, Fixcinator. Is it sharp wide open? I will likely be shooting 1.7-2.0 a lot. My test roll will prob be a fuji 400 superia. That's good advice on the flare, hard to avoid in Hawaii so I'll keep an eye out for a hood.

Really looking forward to testing this one out. Thanks.

Xmas · Oct 11, 2014

Fixcinater said:
My thoughts on using it:

Lens isn't super contrasty at f/1.7 but it's pretty good at resolving details. I'd prefer more resolution over more contrast, so I'm ok with using it at f/1.7. Some folks are not. Color film will show that lack of contrast as light saturation, so be prepared for that if you throw Portra 400 in there and are expecting Velvia levels of punch.

Lens flare can show itself in back- and side-lit scenes. Figuring out some way to get a hood on there is a good priority after assuring yourself that it is all working. The factory Canonet hood is rare and usually costs more than you paid for your camera, so other options start to look attractive. Step up ring to 49mm is one.

It is a four group single coated lens and will be low contrast compared similar post 1980 multi coated lenses.

Cosina Voiglander make their 40mm /1.4 in single or multi...

About 50 50 split.

Mine holds up well contra jour.

At night without a filter light strong light sources have a signature which I like YMMV.

The power switch for the meter frequently is contimated and needs cleaning common across all the compact canonet range.

ZENGHOST · Oct 14, 2014

Xmas said:
It is a four group single coated lens and will be low contrast compared similar post 1980 multi coated lenses.

Cosina Voiglander make their 40mm /1.4 in single or multi...

About 50 50 split.

Mine holds up well contra jour.

At night without a filter light strong light sources have a signature which I like YMMV.

The power switch for the meter frequently is contimated and needs cleaning common across all the compact canonet range.

Thanks for the input, Xmas.

Just to update, I did contact the seller with this message on Friday:

Hi, I got the Canonet really fast, so thank you for that. I did have a question, though. As far as I can tell, this isn't a GIII, it's a regular non GIII QL17. I admittedly missed that in the photos (GIII's are designated by a badge on the front), so I accept responsibility for that, but was curious if there's a reason you thought that it was a GIII. Thanks for your time, hope you have a great weekend.

and received this response Sunday night:

I am sorry about the over sight on the exact model... I sold a QL17 GIII last spring and I used the listing to base this listing on. I didn't notice that it was different. I have seen older canonets but they have all had different lenses. Hope that everything else is to your satisfaction. Let me know if you have any other question.

That seems like a legitimate reason for the wrong title.

Xmas · Oct 15, 2014

Well he should have noticed

the GIII badge
and the battery test
...

but Id not mind you have got a camera that is the same and the test is not useful.

you will need to do something about the battery eg Shockety diode in adapter, soldered, or rubber plumbers ring, hearing aid battery etc. or just use manual.

I use manual...

eBay is lottery if it works out of packaging - jackpot!

ZENGHOST · Oct 15, 2014

Xmas said:
Well he should have noticed

the GIII badge
and the battery test
...

but Id not mind you have got a camera that is the same and the test is not useful.

you will need to do something about the battery eg Shockety diode in adapter, soldered, or rubber plumbers ring, hearing aid battery etc. or just use manual.

I use manual...

eBay is lottery if it works out of packaging - jackpot!

I agree, but I wasn't about to argue about it so I just let it go, and you're right that it is still a very nice camera. I will be trying manual but I do want to get the meter working as well, so will be attempting some of the battery replacement fixes.

Xmas · Oct 15, 2014

Pharmacy for zinc hearing aid battery
Plumbers factor for rubber O ring
Might need alumum foil padding but keep it away from battery insulator
The reading may not be accurate for / until a few minutes after removing the lens cap.
Cover a few holes for increased life.

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