canon prograf5000

[MVNelson]

I really have been impressed with my progaf5000 for print color and BW prints . I am currently studying methods of producing enlarged negs for pt/pd printing on pictorico film. I'm curious about results anyone has gotten using this printer for that purpose. I believe I'll try the chartrob method first. Anyone with experience with this method with this printer?

Miles

 

[Anonymous]

Miles, I do not have experience with this printer and have not heard much other than the reviews, which are quite favorable from what I have read. I will look forward to hearing how this works out for you. The ink palette looks quite nice.

 

[MVNelson]

Donald, I have not attempted to make any negatives yet. I am trying to decide between chartrob and pdn . Most likely will do chartrob 1st. I have some pictorico on order. I must tell you that I have been extremely impressed with the monochrome prints on Strathmore Windpower vellum Bristol (pretty inexpensive also).Color prints are quite amazing also. It's a great printer for us "over achievers" . As for the inks, I shutter for the day I'll need to start replacing them( 12 ink cartriges = approx. $750 !) . However, There is nothing like the waste of ink like the Epson's when switching to matt blacks (auto on the canon prograf). Still I might have to use "the Light " to grow a supplementry cash crop to keep in the "black ink".... (kidding of course )

Miles

 

[MVNelson]

Well, good news and bad....I prepared my first digi-negative following a step wise approach as per the Chart Throb method. The chart throb curve looked al the world too "aggresive" to me and I am sure that is where my problem origianted. I made 2 digital negatives both with the canon iPF5000. I used the color arrays HSB and original triad arrays(which sugested the best UV blocking 144red,128green/0blue. The one negative I printed without the Chart Throb curve and the other with the curve... The origianal 4x5 negative had a DR of 1.7. The digital negative with the curve was just wrong...very low density and very low saturation and unprintable. Onthe other hand the digital negative (that looked like a well exposed pyro-stained negative) printed on COT 320, pd, gtts(drops)18/18/2(10% Na2) pretty good. The only problem was a kinda over exposed it by 20 units by mistake. The pd print had the full tonal range albeit a tad too dark and a tad too contrasty. Where do I go from here...? I suppose back to Chart throb for a second shot at a better curve....I am sure the UV blocking color is more than ample...The print tones are very smooth...no mottling..no graininess...It looks like I didn't need a curve for this scanned negative...? Back to the lab...


Miles

 

[mkochsch]

Post an image of the print made with the uncurved digital negative. Post an image of the curve ChartThrob made. It sounds like maybe a backward curve or maybe a layer problem. Hard to tell without seeing the output though.
~m

 

[MVNelson]

I'll do that but I think I on to what happened. On observing the chart throb tablet and a 21 step tablet exposed and processed together the step tablet did not seem over exposed but the chart throb tablet has only a few 1 line of highlight values and may be 2 (20% & 30%) lines of midtone values and then we are quickly in the shadows ! I will repeat the exposure of the chart thropb tablet that will ensure more midtone lines. Hopefully trhat outta do her.... Thanks for your involvement... I really want this method to be where I take my stand with pt/pd and digi-enlarged negatives because it has the potential to be the most direct and simple....plus working with what looks familiar...pyro stain negatives is cool too and may offer the benefit of getting the claimed "pyro" effect in my images .

Miles

 

[MVNelson]

I posted in the tech gallery...

Miles

 

[mkochsch]

That's an uncurved ChartThrob box, right? Measure the boxes in the highlight area of the ChartThrob (CT) tablet. The Zero percent is measuring 5 per cent, which is a little high. Then it quickly drops down to where is should be by the 3 to 6 per cent boxes and then starts to climb again (which is natural). It's that first "less dense" step that's a potential problem. What this may mean is that you've hit a little density island somewhere. In the HSB-Array on my web page you can see non-linearities and anomalies will appear for no particular reason -- although the reason is probably the ink profiles in the ICM driver.
Some suggestions: Change your starting colour by one of the following methods. If you want to continue working in RGB values start adding Blue in steps on the order of 3 to 5 (i.e. 144, 128, 3). Or, if you want to switch over to the HSB palette you could achieve the same thing by decreasing the Saturation value a couple of percent at a time. It's easy to see if you set RGB and HSB in the view palette at the same time.
Come to think of it...you could also try this...after you've filled the CT with your blocking colour just measure the colour in the 3 per cent block (I'm measuring something like R147, G132, B8) use that as your new blocking colour, that would have the effect of moving everything over and your Zero per cent starting out at 2 per cent. Then you could either do one of two things. Pull your exposure back a touch (less exposure, not an ideal solution but may be within tolerances) or start nudging the "Brightness" down using the HSB palette. Say from 58 to 55 which would have the effect of increasing density.
You're really close, I think it's just a matter of fine tuning that starting colour. It's important to get a good white in the first few steps, if you hit a blip after that point the curve can fix it hopefully.

~m

 

[MVNelson]

~m

that is an uncurved ChartThrob box. I folow your reasoning ...I think. You didn't comment on the midtone and shadow densities of that box ...should I assume they are looking ok to you ? When I read the printed uncurved ChartThrob box with a reflexion densitometer the 1st square read .07 and the 2nd sq. .07 and then they progressed .08,etc. I'll remeasure the scanned tablet in ps now.. Perhaps a rescan of the ChartThrob tablet is in order.

I appreciate your help

`m

 

[mkochsch]

There may be some slight coating problem on that scan too. Here's a trick I use: after you've scanned the printed CT, Open the "Levels" dialogue. While holding the Alt/Opt key start sliding the whitepoint slider to the left/right....slooooowly. This shows you the luminance change in high-contrast mode. You can clearly see a "hot-spot" or "bloom" that's around the 3 per cent block. Maybe there's too much or too little emulsion on that spot. It makes more sense and is easier to correct that my last hypothesis. It would also mean your starting colour of 144, 128, 0 was probably very close.
Sometimes I'll average my CT tablets so that I'm getting a better representation of what's going on. A necessary evil with hand coated papers.

~m

 

[mkochsch]

...some more thoughts...what kind of light source are you using? The reason I'm asking is that it almost looks to me now like the edges are not receiving as much light as the middle area of your CT tablet. Almost like light fall off. Also, how old was the negative when you contact printed it? The negatives will off-gas quite a bit in the first day causing slight density changes where there is more/less ink.

~m

 

[MVNelson]

I am using a NuArc VFC 143(1000w,3000w,6000w) Metal Halide UV unit, I tested the edges of the approx 36"X42" vac frame and seems to have only marginal fall off. Though I use it without filters it has 2 filters one purple and gives off a glow like a black-light (I might try this one)and other pale amber one and I don't know what its for. I am pretty sure that I uv light over exposed the ChartThrob tablet which makes it too dark and causes the ps analyser to make a curve that wipes out my image density, i.e. what I get after applyling the curve to my subject image is a very desaturated image and a very thin negative image when inverted, which makes a digital negative that is thin which prints too dark....I am prepping some paper as we speak to test this theory. Again the digi-negative i made from the same image with the color fill but without the curve printed almost as it should.

`m

Miles

 

[MVNelson]

I am happy to report excellent progress with Charthrob and pictorico ohp and initial testing of ChartThrob and Canaon Transparent clear film...hopeful post image soon...
Miles