Canon New F-1 Metering and Shutter Not Working

j.eff · Mar 2, 2016

I've just received a Canon New F-1 from KEH and I can't seem to make it operate. I'm speculating the issue is me and not the camera, or I'm missing some little quirk. An hour of internet searching hasn't set me straight.

It's got the AE Finder FN. I've got a battery that operates a couple of AE-1s with no problem, and the battery check in the F-1 takes it almost to the top of the battery check scale.

Without the battery installed, the film advance and mechanical shutter operate as expected. And, I should add, the mirror and shutter sound awesome.

With the battery installed, I get nothing. The meters switch as they should between right side and bottom for match needle and aperture priority AE respectively, and the match circle on the right moves with a change in the aperture while in match needle mode. However, pressing the shutter button halfway doesn't activate the meters, and pressing fully doesn't fire the shutter. I've reviewed a manual, and am aware of the note explaining the shutter dial should be turned between 2000 and A if the shutter dial is set to A before installing the finder. I've tried that, but that didn't resolve anything.

The shutter lock button, is of course, set to A and not L or S. I've also tried S with the self-timer, and still nothing.

Additionally, while I've been working with this, the flag that covers the right side meter has started not swinging fully out of the way when switching back to match needle metering, keeping the meter almost completely hidden. Nonetheless, that shouldn't prevent the shutter from firing, or the lower meter from metering when in aperture priority AE mode.

What am I missing? Anything? I can't imagine anything else I'd be doing that would prevent this from functioning correctly. I'll be calling KEH first thing in the morning, but hoped APUG might save me from potential embarrassment if I'm doing something completely nuts.

Sirius Glass · Mar 2, 2016

You can download a manual from http://www.butkus.org/chinon/canon.htm. If you find it useful please send the website owner $3.00US since to help cover his volunteer effort to provide this service.

KEH will work with you to solve your problem.

SchwinnParamount · Mar 2, 2016

j.eff said:
I've just received a Canon New F-1 from KEH and I can't seem to make it operate. I'm speculating the issue is me and not the camera, or I'm missing some little quirk. An hour of internet searching hasn't set me straight.

It's got the AE Finder FN. I've got a battery that operates a couple of AE-1s with no problem, and the battery check in the F-1 takes it almost to the top of the battery check scale.

Without the battery installed, the film advance and mechanical shutter operate as expected. And, I should add, the mirror and shutter sound awesome.

With the battery installed, I get nothing. The meters switch as they should between right side and bottom for match needle and aperture priority AE respectively, and the match circle on the right moves with a change in the aperture while in match needle mode. However, pressing the shutter button halfway doesn't activate the meters, and pressing fully doesn't fire the shutter. I've reviewed a manual, and am aware of the note explaining the shutter dial should be turned between 2000 and A if the shutter dial is set to A before installing the finder. I've tried that, but that didn't resolve anything.

The shutter lock button, is of course, set to A and not L or S. I've also tried S with the self-timer, and still nothing.

Additionally, while I've been working with this, the flag that covers the right side meter has started not swinging fully out of the way when switching back to match needle metering, keeping the meter almost completely hidden. Nonetheless, that shouldn't prevent the shutter from firing, or the lower meter from metering when in aperture priority AE mode.

What am I missing? Anything? I can't imagine anything else I'd be doing that would prevent this from functioning correctly. I'll be calling KEH first thing in the morning, but hoped APUG might save me from potential embarrassment if I'm doing something completely nuts.

Yeah, that is a common problem and one that my F-1 has too. The battery compartment has a positive and negative battery terminal. The lower terminal is spring loaded. The springs get weak and sometimes break. When that happens, the camera does not think you've got a battery installed. The result is the exact conditions that you've described.
You can follow BenjiBoy's advice and buy a spare spring which will take a week to arrive and then pay a camera tech to install it for you at about $100... or you can spend $3 on thin copper tape. Cut off about a 2 inch piece of the tape, fold it over and over until it is 1/16th of an inch thick. Wad up the last fold so there is a knob of copper on one side. Install the tape under the battery with the knob side down. You'll close the circuit and the camera will start working again.
I got my tape on ebay, but you can likely find a local supplier. Anyway, my repair took 5 minutes after the tape arrived and I didn't need to futz around with opening the camera body. I like Occam's Razor. That is, the simplest solution is the best.
If you don't want to do that, return it to KEH. They're great about returns.

RonD · Mar 2, 2016

Was the camera supposed to have been tested?
Ronald

j.eff · Mar 3, 2016

SchwinnParamount said:
Yeah, that is a common problem and one that my F-1 has too. The battery compartment has a positive and negative battery terminal. The lower terminal is spring loaded. The springs get weak and sometimes break. When that happens, the camera does not think you've got a battery installed. The result is the exact conditions that you've described.
You can follow BenjiBoy's advice and buy a spare spring which will take a week to arrive and then pay a camera tech to install it for you at about $100... or you can spend $3 on thin copper tape. Cut off about a 2 inch piece of the tape, fold it over and over until it is 1/16th of an inch thick. Wad up the last fold so there is a knob of copper on one side. Install the tape under the battery with the knob side down. You'll close the circuit and the camera will start working again.
I got my tape on ebay, but you can likely find a local supplier. Anyway, my repair took 5 minutes after the tape arrived and I didn't need to futz around with opening the camera body. I like Occam's Razor. That is, the simplest solution is the best.
If you don't want to do that, return it to KEH. They're great about returns.

That was a concern and seemed like something that might have been a common problem, but the lower terminal spring action on this one seems quite strong. It's got as much or more spring force as any of the AE-1s or AE-1Ps I've owned. But, just for good measure, I've tried shimming under the battery with a very small screwdriver to provide some additional contact force, but that didn't seem to help. I'll definitely remember the copper tape hack if I ever need it on a future camera. This one, I'm afraid, I'll have to return.

RonD said:
Was the camera supposed to have been tested?

It was a BGN graded unit from KEH, which means it would have been tested and working, or repaired to work, unless defects were noted. In this case, none were. The only thing they sell that would likely be not tested or working is their AS-IS graded gear. So, I'll be contacting them and arranging a return this morning. It's used gear, so this kind of thing can happen unfortunately.

benjiboy · Mar 3, 2016

benjiboy · Mar 3, 2016

Have you got the lens set and locked on A ?.

j.eff · Mar 3, 2016

Only

benjiboy said:
Have you got the lens set and locked on A ?.

Only time it would have the lens aperture ring set to A is when using shutter priority AE, but that is only an option with a motor or power winder attached. So, without that additional equipment installed, it should have full manual match-needle metering, or aperture priority AE, both of which would require the lens aperture set to something other than A.

To be absolutely certain, I tried just now anyway. Still no function.

I called KEH this morning. They've got another in stock they're sending to me and I'm going to return this one. This was my first time dealing with KEH customer service and they're just as outstanding as I've always heard.

cooltouch · Mar 3, 2016

That's one nice thing about KEH, is their return department -- and their return policy, of course. I bought a Pentax 6x7 from them last year and found that the metered prism was causing too big of a drain on the battery. It was a no-questions-asked return, and they had me back up and running in a matter of a couple of days. Great folks to deal with and they get piles of my money on a semi-regular basis.

Oh, and about your New F-1 -- after reading through your first description of the problem, it sounded to me like there were multiple things going wrong inside that camera. So I think you're making the right move just returning the whole thing. Now what has me curious is wondering what happened to it to get it to that point. I mean, the F-1 is just about as indestructible a camera as you'll ever come across. Heavy vibration for an extended period, maybe?

j.eff · Mar 3, 2016

cooltouch said:
Oh, and about your New F-1 -- after reading through your first description of the problem, it sounded to me like there were multiple things going wrong inside that camera. So I think you're making the right move just returning the whole thing. Now what has me curious is wondering what happened to it to get it to that point. I mean, the F-1 is just about as indestructible a camera as you'll ever come across. Heavy vibration for an extended period, maybe?

Yeah, I can't imagine what happened to it. I fully believe when KEH went through it, it was working fine. The seals all look brand new, so I doubt it's one that slipped through their system. It was bubble-wrapped to the max as usual, and the box (aside from normal shipping grunge) was in excellent shape when I got it. Right out of the box though, no proper function. At least initially the match-needle meter on the right of the viewfinder was showing up just fine, but then it started staying mostly blocked. I'm sure that's just something dragging a bit, because at one point when I fired the shutter (mechanically without the battery), the flag swung back out of the way to show the meter. After switching between match-needle and aperture AE and back, the flag stayed hanging in place.

So, new (old, New F-1; that gets confusing fast) one is on the way and should be here Monday. I'm packing the old, old, New one back up and sending it away tomorrow. I hope they can get it working. It's a beautiful camera and it would be a shame for it to be relegated down to the AS-IS stock.

benjiboy · Mar 4, 2016

j.eff said:
Yeah, I can't imagine what happened to it. I fully believe when KEH went through it, it was working fine. The seals all look brand new, so I doubt it's one that slipped through their system. It was bubble-wrapped to the max as usual, and the box (aside from normal shipping grunge) was in excellent shape when I got it. Right out of the box though, no proper function. At least initially the match-needle meter on the right of the viewfinder was showing up just fine, but then it started staying mostly blocked. I'm sure that's just something dragging a bit, because at one point when I fired the shutter (mechanically without the battery), the flag swung back out of the way to show the meter. After switching between match-needle and aperture AE and back, the flag stayed hanging in place.

So, new (old, New F-1; that gets confusing fast) one is on the way and should be here Monday. I'm packing the old, old, New one back up and sending it away tomorrow. I hope they can get it working. It's a beautiful camera and it would be a shame for it to be relegated down to the AS-IS stock.

It's easy all the Old F1's were painted glossy piano black, the New F1's were all matte black.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 4, 2016

If you remove the battery out of the chamber, the shutter will be a mechanical camera and it should fire. There's also a battery tester in the camera on the right side by the lens barrel. If you push it, the needle should line up to a square notch in the manual mode. You have a nice camera. I've owned one for over 30 years and it's never let me down. They're built like tanks as you know. Good luck!

j.eff · Mar 5, 2016

And an update... The replacement F-1 arrived today. I haven't had a chance to shoot with it yet because I got home too late, but it all seems to function exactly as expected. Popped the battery in, and it metered fine, fired the shutter fine, and works in both modes as it should. I'll put a roll through it sometime tomorrow.

The surprise for me was the condition this one is in. The first one I returned was pretty nice for a BGN graded unit, but this one is almost pristine. It's got a little bit of brassing on the upper-right rear corner, and a little on the film reminder holder, but that's about all. Frankly, I'm surprised this one wasn't an EX unit. KEH is pretty awesome.

Sirius Glass · Mar 5, 2016

I am glad that KEH followed through with their warranty and shipped you a working replacement. Would that have happened and happened that fast with eBay?

dabsond · Mar 6, 2016

Great to hear KEH stood behind their products.

ASA32 · Mar 9, 2016

I've always found KEH to be upstanding, and they grade their equipment very conservatively—usually much better than their rating would suggest.

darinwc · Mar 16, 2016

I did not read the long line of posts. But you may try a new battery. The f1n and a1 are more picky about having a good voltage. The ae1 will take a real battery and work fine.

SchwinnParamount · Mar 17, 2016

j.eff said:
And an update... The replacement F-1 arrived today. I haven't had a chance to shoot with it yet because I got home too late, but it all seems to function exactly as expected. Popped the battery in, and it metered fine, fired the shutter fine, and works in both modes as it should. I'll put a roll through it sometime tomorrow.

The surprise for me was the condition this one is in. The first one I returned was pretty nice for a BGN graded unit, but this one is almost pristine. It's got a little bit of brassing on the upper-right rear corner, and a little on the film reminder holder, but that's about all. Frankly, I'm surprised this one wasn't an EX unit. KEH is pretty awesome.

Oh darn, it looks like KEH mixed up their shipping labels again. That one's mine. You'll have to send it to me.

j.eff · Mar 19, 2016

Finally, I've been able to post-process the test roll of film I shot nearly two weeks ago. This was Ilford HP5 Plus shot on a particularly gray overcast day. I bumped the development time 2 minutes from Ilford's recommended time (D-76 1:1) to expand the high end a bit.

The camera is great, and I'm very happy with it.

Canon New F-1 Metering and Shutter Not Working

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