Canon FL

CMoore · Jun 27, 2016

cooltouch said:
No. You compose and focus the same as you would with an FD lens. You meter with the camera set in its stop-down mode. You do not have to have the lens set in stop down mode when you trip the shutter -- you can if you want, but the camera will set the aperture anyway to its pre-determined value when the shutter is tripped. It is very important that, if you use the camera's onboard meter, you meter with the stop-down lever engaged and then you set the meter needle to the stop-down metering index mark. With respect to the needle, I'm thinking of the AE-1, FTb and F-1. Those cameras with digital or LED readouts will handle the index differently, but the concept is the same.

I am reminded of the Canon A-1 as an example. That camera has a "Stopped Down AE" mode, which is essentially Aperture-Priority AE with the lens set to manual aperture mode. It stays stopped down when the shutter is tripped. But with other cameras, such as the FTb, EF, or original F-1, you can stop the lens down momentarily to meter -- or you can set the stop-down lever to stay put for manual aperture during exposure. Either way works.

I must not understand how the FL works.
How can an FL lens stop itself down when the shutter is clicked...isn't that why it is not an FD.?
If i do not have the Stop Down button pushed, won't an FL Lens be wide open when the shutter is clicked.?

MattKing · Jun 27, 2016

CMoore said:
I must not understand how the FL works.
How can an FL lens stop itself down when the shutter is clicked...isn't that why it is not an FD.?
If i do not have the Stop Down button pushed, won't an FL Lens be wide open when the shutter is clicked.?

The FL lens doesn't have the connection with the camera that communicates to the meter what aperture has been set (actually the offset between maximum aperture and the aperture set), so you have to meter using the actual stopped down aperture, not the wide open aperture that is best for viewing and composing.

The lens does have the function though that stops the lens down automatically at the instant that the shutter is released.

So you meter with it in stop-down mode, then flip it into open aperture mode to compose, focus and shoot.

CMoore · Jun 27, 2016

OK, i was taking it one step further. It ALL makes sense now.
Thank You Matt (once again) And all the rest (The Professor and Mary Ann) who set me straight.
I Appreciate It

AgX · Jun 27, 2016

CMoore,
well, you do have to understand the working of lenses. There are different type of lenses:

-) lenses that have a plain aperture. You must set and thus close the aperture to the desired value for metering AND exposure.
Thus in time before releasing the image can become quite dark.

-) lenses that have a pre-set aperture and a aperture-closing mechanism that covers the release button of the camera. Thus gaining practically a automatism in closing the aperture just prior to shutter opening.

-) lenses that have a true automatic aperture. The camera itself closes the aperture in the moment of releasing.
The FL lenses are of this kind.

-) lenses that in addition tell the body what aperture is set and what the largest aperture (speed) the lens got. Thus enabling the body to meter at open aperture and to do do aperture-priority auto-exposure.

-) lenses that in addition have a actuator to enable the body to determine itself to which stop the aperture is closed. Thus enabling the body in addition to do time-priority auto-exposure.
The FD lenses are of this kind.
(At the FD's the same activator that tells the body the aperture preset at the lens also functions as activator to enable the body to control the aperture.)

The FL mount has got 1 coupling, the FD mount got 4.
(The 4th one is kind of subfunction of the actuator that tells the body the preset aperture, designed as seperat actuator to tell the body whether manual- or auto-mode is set at the lens.

CMoore · Jun 27, 2016

More ^^^^^^^^^good info...Thanks.
It would seem that part of my confusion (beside the fact that i did not completely understand how the FL works) stems from One Lens.
It is a 50/1.8
It meters correctly (i think) whether it is stopped down or not.?
It is adjustable...kind of like and FD, between a letter 'A' and a letter 'B' stamped on the lens, next to the breech lock ring.
I have tried looking in my AT-1 manual, and on the internet, but i do not see an explanation for it. My other two FL lens do not have this.

+++ Very Sorry +++
Need to edit this.
The letters ARE NOT A and B.
They are 'A' and 'M'

AgX · Jun 27, 2016

At the majority of FL lenses there is a lockable ring with the settings "A" and "M".
That is the switch between Automatic aperture (body closing the aperture to preset value at releasing) and Manual closure to preset value (like DOF-switch at FD bodies)

Your "A" and "B" settings seem to mean the same.

Some FL lenses got an unmarked, unlocked switching ring next to the aperture-setting ring.

Two FL lenses got instead of that switching ring a button. Seemingly here the lens is always in automatic mode, but that button yields an override function to close down aperture, without arrrest though.

benjiboy · Jun 27, 2016

Mackinaw said:
FL lenses work the same on a FD-bodied camera as a FL-bodied camera. Meeting is stop-down only, but viewing and focusing is with the lens wide-open. The aperture will stop down to the taking aperture when you press the shutter button. No need to pre-set the diaphragm.

Jim B.

I'm well aware of that, the point I was making is that when they are used with FD cameras you have to use stoped down metering so they are very slow and counter intuitive to use compared with the proper FD ones.

CMoore · Jun 27, 2016

Oh Man.....sorry.
Yes the letters are 'A' and 'M'

not A and B.
My Apologies.

cooltouch · Jul 1, 2016

CMoore said:
More ^^^^^^^^^good info...Thanks.
It would seem that part of my confusion (beside the fact that i did not completely understand how the FL works) stems from One Lens.
It is a 50/1.8
It meters correctly (i think) whether it is stopped down or not.?

Maybe by accident your camera metered correctly without being stopped down. But this is not typical. On your AT-1, when you shove in the stop-down switch, one of your needles should disappear. The remaining needle should be aligned with an index mark, achieved by either changing the lens aperture or shutter speed. That exposure value will not necessarily correspond to the meter readout when the stop-down switch is not pushed in.

CMoore · Jul 1, 2016

My confusion came from the 50mm lens. It has the A/M option on it.
Didn't one of our members explain those...i have already forgotten, but on am FD camera, it will meter (NOT Stepped -Down) when on the 'A' setting.

AgX · Jul 1, 2016

One can meter correctly with a FL lens on a FD body, if the stop-down button at the body is depressed, and the lens is set at "M".

With the FL lens instead set at "A", metering will only be correct for exposure with aperture full open.

CMoore · Jul 1, 2016

OK...Thanks.
I had it reversed in my post...while using the camera i must have had the lens set to 'M'...and then the confusion started, but has All Been cleared up thanks to APUG.
Thank You

flavio81 · Jul 2, 2016

cooltouch said:
In short -- I love it. My impressions are just about the same as yours. As big as a mortar tube, but close to zero distortion and little if any CA. Very good sharpness, even wide open at 300mm. Mine came with an original Canon wedge shaped case. I was curious about the reason why the case was wedged shaped until one day when I was looking at how much room there was at the top of the case and then it dawned on me. I mounted an FTb to the lens and dropped it back in the case, and it closed up just fine. So that's kind of cool -- you can carry that big lens around in its original case with a large 35mm camera attached to it, ready to shoot.

I used to own the regular 19mm f/3.5 -- the one that didn't require mirror lock up to use. And I loved that lens. Wish I would have never sold it. Nowadays, prices are steep for that old hunk of glass, but worth it, really.

Man, infinite thanks for your feedback, i considered selling it because of the size, but with your feedback I'll keep it.

Fixcinater · Jul 2, 2016

One neat lens you can try to find is the FL 100/3.5 or converter RB (or converter RA with appropriate lens heads), that is definitely a throw back technology compared to the new style FD lenses.

Basically just the earlier rangefinder lens with an adapter to make it work correctly on the SLR bodies.

I don't have any direct substitutes but I do like using my FL 58/1.2 when I can. I've used it on my new F1 bodies with no issues...not sure what the manual is talking about when they warn against that combo.

benjiboy · Jul 3, 2016

AgX said:
One can meter correctly with a FL lens on a FD body, if the stop-down button at the body is depressed, and the lens is set at "M".

With the FL lens instead set at "A", metering will only be correct for exposure with aperture full open.

That's correct, I can't think why anyone using FD cameras would want to buy FL ones when you can get FD ones with fully automatic diaphragms so cheaply.

AgX · Jul 3, 2016

I bought an FL 135mmm F3.5 because it is much smaller than the FD 2.5 I got too, and as it was even much cheaper than any FD lens.
And the automatic aperture works anyway (though that is not "fully automatic diaphrahgm" in the context of metering and time-priority auto-exposure.) But I'd use it wide open anyway.

So there are cases where using a FL lens does not yield disadvantages

Canon FL

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