Canon F1n vs. Nikon F2? Really, is one better than the other?

benjiboy

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This thread has strayed so far from the original question/ topic I've lost interest in it.
 

frank

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So what gives you the impression that terry Richardson is creepy?
 

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cuthbert

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Thinking about it...it's a draw: I have them both and I love them both, both are massive, both are classy, the Canon looks and feels newer but the F2 is more classic...so why not keeping both?

The battle between F1N and F3 is quite easy to resolve in favour of the Canon, on the other side.
 

flavio81

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I have not used an F2 nor an F-1, so i can't comment.

However between a Nikon F and a Canon F-1, the F i like more. It's a tank, so solid and angular.

Yet i like my Canon EF the same as the Nikon F. It's so beautiful, yet practical.

The battle between F1N and F3 is quite easy to resolve in favour of the Canon, on the other side.

Agree! (although i like my F3)
 

TheFlyingCamera

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I forgot another legal delineation of what is and is not 'porn' - if it can be determined that the sole purpose of the image or text is to cause sexual arousal, and has no other aesthetic or educational value whatsoever.

I'd say that Richardson's work meets that definition. It certainly has commercial value as a piece by itself, but so does Hustler.

As to the use of lens flare in the clothing catalog, well, that was obviously an artistic choice made by the photographer and/or the art director who felt that look would evoke a mood that would make people want to buy those clothes. For all we know, since the technical details were not provided, the photographer tweaked his lighting setup in such a way as to provoke flare in the scene despite using the latest, greatest multi-coated whiz-bang optics. Or she could have been shooting them with a Holga. We'll never know.

As a photographer, I would prefer to work with high-quality optics, reliable mechanics, and competent designs. IF I want lots of lens flare and I'm using a Canon or Nikon, I can always provoke it with the right lighting techniques. If I'm working with an Argus C3, I may get lens flare that can't be fixed (or light leaks if I'm using a Holga) when I DON'T want them. As a friend of mine once put it, "I can make a Hasselblad photo look like a Holga, but not the other way round". There are times when the Argus or Holga are the right tool for the job - their constraints and challenges may be what's needed to produce the body of work the photographer wants to produce. So in that sense, the Yashica T4 is just as "professional" a tool as a Canon EOS 1V, when used within its limits. But it isn't a tool I would use for day-in, day-out shooting because of those very limits. That's just my opinion, others will disagree.
 

blockend

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I forgot another legal delineation of what is and is not 'porn' - if it can be determined that the sole purpose of the image or text is to cause sexual arousal, and has no other aesthetic or educational value whatsoever.
That's a tricky definition to make stick. There are all kinds of apparently pornographic imagery on gallery walls, that are not porn simply by the nature of their context. If it's a top shelf magazine, it's likely to be porn. If it's got a £35000 price tag and hangs in a gallery, it's most likely art, by the simple expediency that there are cheaper ways to get your kicks. Similarly, museums are in possession of priceless artefacts that may have been considered pornographic in the classical world, but are now priceless antiques, and therefore not porn.

How does one decide what is not educational? Terry Richardson was being provocative, and therefore educating the general public in the commercial forces that manipulate them. FWIW, I'm not a fan of Richardson or his work, but one does not need to admire an artist to consider their work worthwhile.
 

Xmas

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I've understood quote above but two points to help unwary.

If you use multi coated filters don't finger print them. It wont remove easily.

If you want a softer picture stick a thumb print in centre of filter. Just use a single coated filter.

But back to OP the mechanical timed shutter of the F2 ment that some pros stayed with the F2 and ignored the F3 as new fangled.
 

cuthbert

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Agree! (although i like my F3)

In the round "Who's the king of the 80s?" the only serious competitor of the F-1N is the Pentax LX IMO.

The Canon is a better system camera with better accessories (viewfinder and screens that modify the lightmeter mode) while the LX has a fantastic lightmeter (especially for night photography), it's small and light and as smooth as silk, while the F-1N is a little "agricultural" (the film advance lever, but I assume it's due to the fact the camera was meant to be used with a motordrive).

The King of the 70s...I don't know. I can't decide between the massive and powerful black line of the F-1 and the classic retro-futuristic design of the F2AS, surely we are talking about some of the best professional cameras ever made. I can also throw the Minolta XM in this Battle Royale-like fray.
 
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flavio81

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Note that the Minolta XM (also known as XK) was designed some years later, so it has the advantage of newer design.

The advantage i'd guess the Canon has, is that it fits Canon FD lenses, and there are some very high performance lenses unique to that system (mainly the 55/1.2 aspheric and the 85/1.2 aspheric). But on the wideangle side Nikon has also some interesting lenses...
 

benjiboy

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I've owned all these cameras over the years and the one I prefer,( indeed I used to sell them for a living to pros. when I worked at a leading U.K. professional dealer) is the New Canon F1, I have three of them, and they are everything in a a SLR I require.
 

cuthbert

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I agree that the FD lenses are great, even the non aspheric ones (I have a standard 50 mm f1.2 of which I am greatly satisfied) but also the other systems have excellent glass, for instance the Pentax 50mm f1.2 has achieved almost a mythological status...this is my Canon FD 50 mm:










Nikkors aren't bad either:







 
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blockend

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The sharpest 35mm prints I ever made were from an Olympus Zuiko 50mm 1.8. I think this may have had something to do with the silver rich, cadmium rich Agfa Portriga paper I used at the time. Without any contemporary comparisons in 35mm, that lens has gone down in my personal photographic pantheon as a marvel, though I suspect most glass would have looked good on that paper, with Agfa warm tone developer.
 

cuthbert

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Please post photographic proof or it never happened!
 

TheFlyingCamera

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I'm not saying the definition is clear or precise. It always comes down to Justice Potter Stewart's definition: "I can't explain it, but I know it when I see it". In this day and age when something that would have been clearly defined as porn is used and created for the purpose of commenting on what is or is not porn, commerce, exploitation, fashion or a whole host of other topics, it does have aesthetic and redeeming value, but only in a specific context. If you were to take a Terry Richardson photo out of that rarefied context, most people looking at it who did not recognize it as a Terry Richardson photo (thereby recalling the context) would think of it as porn.
 

blockend

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Who was the presiding judge who declared pornography was anything that gave him an erection? I forget, but it doesn't seem a useful way of deciding. I believe definitions should not err towards pruriency, or we'd have life drawing classes banned. On the other hand sexual exploitation of adults is a notoriously difficult subject to negotiate without pandering to political correctness.

I forget what this has to do with Canonikon wars, but it's probably run its course.
 

benjiboy

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They are both very fine cameras, how good they are depends on who is using them.
 

cuthbert

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Sorry are talking on the subject "which one was the best camera of the 70s?" or about pornography? The topics are pretty unless you think a F2 or a F-1 can be used as sex toys...in this case I would like to know WHY...I'm curious!
 

TheFlyingCamera

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Cuthbert - a tangential discussion arose in the thread from the debate over what is or is not "professional" gear. Which gave rise to someone citing an example of Terry Richardson using a Yashica T4 to shoot fashion spreads for Vogue, made to intentionally look "un-professional". Which turned into a debate about the distinction between art, commerce and porn.
 

cuthbert

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Perhaps it's not clear I've been facetious...I'm aware that the topic got derelailed by Richardson in person and his Yashica, but still...what the frak are they talking about? Art, commerce and porn are the same thing, everybody knows it!







Are these shots artistic, professional, commercial or pornographic?
 
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