Canon F1(N) and Bronica shutter sticking in cold weather

jasper fox · Sep 28, 2016

Hi I took my Canon F1(n) and Bronica S2A out on a pretty cold windy, probably around 5C/40F (maybe a bit less with the windchill), morning to catch the sunrise and found after about 10-20 minutes in the cold and the wind the cameras stopped working, I assume it was the shutter? Anyway, I plan on heading to Nepal soon and was wondering how much of an issue this would be in a consistently cold climate and if anyone has any tips to stop the cameras getting so cold?

benjiboy · Sep 28, 2016

Professionals who work in cold temperatures have the cameras they use winterized, which involves having the cameras lubricants changed for low viscosity winter grade ones that won't freeze at low temperatures, just like having summer or winter grade oils in your car. P.S according to the Canon F1n's spec. it should work to -30 degrees, although, I have an F1n I only got it recently and have never used it in such cold temperatures.

AgX · Sep 28, 2016

I never heard that a F1 (old or new model) had to undergo lubricant exchange climate dependant.

So far I only knew about the Praktica Six.

AgX · Sep 28, 2016

jasper fox said:
Hi I took my Canon F1(n) and Bronica S2A out on a pretty cold windy, probably around 5C/40F (maybe a bit less with the windchill)

Well, windchill does not effect (unheated) things, so the temperature was likely around 10°C or higher.
I assume that should not be a temperature to be troublesome even with the known candidates for being cold-sensitive.

benjiboy · Sep 28, 2016

AgX said:
I never heard that a F1 (old or new model) had to undergo lubricant exchange climate dependant.

So far I only knew about the Praktica Six.

It's all cameras not just the Canon F1, it also applies to firearms and many other mechanical devices in the cold, in fact in extremely cold conditions metals change their molecular structure and become brittle.

AgX · Sep 28, 2016

Basically that is from times of plain mineral oil lubricants.

But for many decades there are synthetic oil lubricants that retain their performance at low temperatures too.

Jim Jones · Sep 28, 2016

In the early 70s I used nearly new Leica rangefinder and Nikon SLR cameras in Greenland with temperatures down to about -60f with no problems. They hadn't been winterized. Batteries for meters and flashes were sometimes a problem.

benjiboy · Sep 29, 2016

AgX said:
Basically that is from times of plain mineral oil lubricants.

But for many decades there are synthetic oil lubricants that retain their performance at low temperatures too.

The Canon F1n came out in 1976 so could be up to forty years old.

benjiboy · Sep 29, 2016

You could use something like this to keep under your coat in close proximity to the camer to keep the ambient temperature above freezing point https://www.completecareshop.co.uk/...wmNTK26iM-hMSJABrkNtbGUHyYMgmEtf3BiqLWCE8ixih

Jim Jones · Sep 29, 2016

Moving cameras in and out of warm humid places in cold weather invites condensation. It's usually better to keep the camera at the outside temperature, and seal it against condensation when bringing it indoors.

flavio81 · Sep 29, 2016

jasper fox said:
Hi I took my Canon F1(n) and Bronica S2A out on a pretty cold windy, probably around 5C/40F (maybe a bit less with the windchill), morning to catch the sunrise and found after about 10-20 minutes in the cold and the wind the cameras stopped working, I assume it was the shutter? Anyway, I plan on heading to Nepal soon and was wondering how much of an issue this would be in a consistently cold climate and if anyone has any tips to stop the cameras getting so cold?

There are two cameras mentioned: Bronica S2A and Canon F1n.

Canon F1n:

This one was designed to work at that temperature with no problems, so most likely the lubricants have changed in viscosity and thus are not working properly at that temperature. The camera most likely will need a relubing, and if new (synthetic) lubricants are used, it should work just fine.

Bronica S2A:
A Bronica S2A working properly at 25°C (77°F) is called "a miracle of God"... enough said!! That would be the last machine i'd bring on a trip to Nepal.

Now, if you're going to the beautiful Nepal, let that wonderful Canon go through a technician first, then everything should be ok. Remember also to test the LENSES since they have the diaphragm mechanism and if lubricants have thickened too much they might seize as well.

darkroommike · Sep 29, 2016

40 above is not cold, winters her get to minus 40F AND minus 40C (it's the same temp, look it up). You're dealing with a a 30 year old Canon and a 40 year old Bronica, both need a good CLA.

benjiboy · Oct 16, 2016

In extreme cold film becomes very brittle and if you wind on too quickly it can snap.

AgX said:
I never heard that a F1 (old or new model) had to undergo lubricant exchange climate dependant.

So far I only knew about the Praktica Six.

"Older mechanical cameras and lenses needed to be “winterized” for use at low temperatures. This involved taking them apart and removing the heavy lubricants from their mechanical parts. This was either replaced with a very low viscosity lubricant or no lubricant at all. Before they could be used again at normal temperatures, they had to be taken apart again and the lubricants replaced "

polka · Nov 15, 2016

benjiboy said:
You could use something like this to keep under your coat in close proximity to the camer to keep the ambient temperature above freezing point
Moving cameras in and out of warm humid places in cold weather invites condensation. It's usually better to keep the camera at the outside temperature, and seal it against condensation when bringing it indoors.

Benjiboy is right :

Condensation happens if warm humidity is in contact with cold hardware. On the opposite, when the hardware is warm and the air cold, there is no risc of condensation.

When I go skiing, I always keep my camera under my skidress, thus close to my body temperature, and I pull it out only to take photos, so that it has no time to cool too much. This way, I never experienced any condensation problem, never any mechanical issue due to freezing of the lubricants and never any electronic malfunction due to too cold batteries.

But when you go back to your well heated house, you may get some condensation, because the air there is warmer than your camera. In this case, do nothing, just let the camera get the room temperature and the condensation will evaporate.

Sirius Glass · Nov 16, 2016

5 degrees C or 40 degrees F is too warm for a camera to have trouble with the temperature. On that alone your cameras need CLAs. If you are going to be outside for long periods of time the cameras need to be winterized. When I took cameras skiing, I had all the equipment, lenses and cameras, winterized. Benjiboy's recommendation to put a plastic bag around the camera before bring it back into a warm place is a wise idea. Let the equipment come up to temperature without the condensation.

flavio81 · Nov 16, 2016

Well at least in this thread it became clear that "Canon F-1N" and "shutter sticking" do not belong in the same sentence.

Canon F1(N) and Bronica shutter sticking in cold weather

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