Canon 1N RS vs. Canon 1v

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 21, 2010

So despite my best efforts to keep all of my 35mm lenses adaptable between FD and EF mount, I seem to have allowed myself to acquire a few EF-mount only lenses for the camera that dare not speak its name on APUG, because interchangeable mounts weren't an option, and I'd like to get an EF mount film body to go with them. I like the 1-series bodies in general, but I shoot pretty much exclusively in manual mode with manual focus and spot metering, and that's true for my New F-1 as well as that other camera. So autofocus performance isn't important for me (I don't even own any autofocus lenses), but ruggedness, basic camera features, and short lag time are, so I've been thinking of getting a 1N RS, but I've also considered a 1v. The main attraction of the 1v would be that it would be a newer camera, and I suppose I'm a bit concerned about viewfinder light loss from the pellicle mirror of the RS, but I'm also attracted to the more solid built-in motor drive of the RS and the low shutter lag of a pellicle mirror camera. A 1N RS would also be about half the price of a second hand 1v, and since I don't shoot a lot of 35mm, it's a consideration.

I mainly want the option of putting some Tri-X behind my Zeiss 85/1.4 Planar ZE, and to have the option of shooting film with my 45/2.8 TS-E, but I want a body suited to (manual focus) bird photography, should I at some point decide to replace my FD 600/4 with an EOS bird lens.

Can any of the EOS film shooters see any glaring flaw in my reasoning for leaning more toward a 1N RS as opposed to a 1v?

kauffman v36 · Jul 21, 2010

I have a 1N and a 1V, was going to get a 1N-RS a while back but opted for the 1V instead. lemme just say, the 1V is the best feeling camera ive ever held. it fits in my hand like a glove and the weight is heavy but perfect. the RS has its advantages like no shutter timeout/lag but if its built like the 1N id opt for the 1V. both have great AF (even though you dont use it) and the screens are bright but no OM-1. maybe somebody whos used the RS can chime in. btw, my 1N and 1V have the pb-e2 booster if that matter any. Good luck

EdSawyer · Jul 21, 2010

BOth great

They are both great cameras. I have 2 1V-HS's and considered an RS. To me the main upside to the RS is that with the pellicle mirror you could mount and adapt lenses that wouldn't fit on the 1V since the moving mirror would hit the glass. Stuff like Konica mount, various Leicas (19mm for example), Canon FD, and others with too-short a register to adapt to EF mount easily. The no-blackout is a nice upside. the 1V has faster AF and can AF at faster motor speeds than the RS. At top speed the RS is fixed focus and apeture I think (10fps) while the 1V can change both during that time at about the same speed (9-10fps). Metering in the 1V is better/more modern too.

-Ed

ath · Jul 22, 2010

Consider a EOS-3. High performance, not much difference to the 1V, quite cheap.
Regarding the shutter lag - well, one can measure it. But with cameras like the 3 it feels like zero.
Once the additional lag of the camera is low enough the shutter lag is mainly the time from your eye through your brain to the finger.

edit: here is a nice compilation of shutter lags.

rodrickreidsma · Jul 22, 2010

What you're shooting may be a factor in your decision. I do mostly documentary/PJ work which puts the 1V or 1N on top of the heap. Why? Dust on the mirror of the RS would be a major, major issue in some of the environs I find myself and the loss of 1/3 stop can be a deal-breaker at times as well. The EOS 3, while inexpensive, is crazy loud. Not to say that the 1N isn't pretty loud in its own right, but the 3 is like a gun going off. So if I were in the market, I'd try for a 1V. If I couldn't find one cheap enough I'd swipe up a 1N and never give it another thought.

good shootin'
Rodrick

Tim Gray · Jul 22, 2010

I have a 1V and can't imagine the 1N RS being that much better. I'd get the 1V. Most advanced film camera Canon ever made. I usually use mine on manual exposure with a spot meter, but with AF.

flatulent1 · Jul 23, 2010

Because of the mirror the RS is great for shooting action, such as skateboarders, with a 16-35 zoom focused manually. But I use the 1V (with battery pack BP-E1) far, far more.

Not sure though why this is an either/or question. You know how gear acquisition goes... :rolleyes:

Poisson Du Jour · Jul 23, 2010

Can any of the EOS film shooters see any glaring flaw in my reasoning for leaning more toward a 1N RS as opposed to a 1v?

Yes.
You said you shoot pretty much in manual mode with spot metering. Despite having a lot more than a manual mode to tickle, the 1NRS would fit the bill whereas the snazzy tech armoury of the 1V would be just overkill. Both cameras have 100% viewfinder coverage, which incidentally is essential for any of the TS-E lenses, and the pellicle mirror vs fixed mirror is of little circumstantial relevance when other critical points are considered. The PDB on the 1NRS is exactly the same as that which is bolted on to a 1N, only it is permanent and has linked functions to the pellicle mirror.

You don't shoot a lot of 35mm? Then the 1NRS (or the much-loved, easier to repair 1N) again firms. I can understand the 1V is sexy and desirable and physically a joy to run your fingers over, but scant few of these big cameras are pushed to anywhere near their limits. It is a workhorse, happy to churn through many hundreds of rolls of film without fail while being hit on the head, knocked over, banged about and generally not mollycoddled each working day. If you do not use cameras like this routinely, the 1V is then little more than a very heavy, high-tech, still-expensive wallflower. Many pros still swear by the 1N/1NRS and variants: I certainly do (and I certainly can swear!, LOL!).

And David, what, prey tell, constitutes "an EOS bird lens"!? What-ho! Never heard of it. You mean a howitzer??

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 23, 2010

Thanks, everyone. It sounds like I'm on the right track for the things I use 35mm for. I don't use autofocus, auto exposure, or metering modes other than spot, so those aren't relevant, but I do wonder about things like dust on the pellicle mirror, which I can just experiment with and see how it goes, and heck, if I decide I also need a 1V later, that's not out of the question.

"EOS bird lens"--well, my bird lens of several years now has been an FD 600/4.5, and I have that rare original Canon FD-EOS converter, so I can continue to use it on an EOS camera. The optics in the converter make it a 1.2X adapter as well, and since I often use that lens with a FD 1.4X-a adapter anyway for bird photography, that's just fine. It's been a good lens, and being manual focus it is lighter than an EOS lens of similar dimensions, and as I say, I'm not interested in autofocus, even for birds (except maybe for flight shots), but the optics of the newer lenses really are better, so maybe one of these days I'll think about replacing it with an EOS bird lens.

In a typical good bird photo op, the bird is about 12-15 feet away and may require a short extension tube, and I never "spray and pray," so I'm always trying to get as many good single shots in as I can before the bird flies away. And if I get 20 shots off in a few minutes and I think as I'm shooting that 15 were good, I know that the bird moves faster than the camera and I do, and there are things I don't see during the mirror blackout, however brief that is, and it might move its head so I lose the catchlight or change the composition, so when I see the slides, I expect that maybe 5 or 6 of the 15 shots I thought were good are in fact really good, and that's why a 6ms lag time, as opposed to 55ms is interesting to me.

Tim Gray · Jul 23, 2010

Oh, I forgot to write an obvious difference between the two. I prefer shooting without the grip/booster most of the time, which you can't do on the 1N RS. If you are just looking for a nice EOS camera, I think the 1V will serve you better. On the other hand, if specific features of the 1N RS interest you, then why get the 1V.

SilverGlow · Jul 23, 2010

I think it comes down to flash usage. If you use a lot of flash, then I would say the 1v is the way to go for it's better E-TTL flashing algorithm, which makes for better and repeatable flashing performance. The 1v is Canon's best film body, and since used prices are reasonable, why consider any other EOS body?

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 23, 2010

If I use flash, it's either a Norman portable or studio strobes. Maybe I'd think of going Lumedyne or Quantum, if I had really good E-TTL, but I'm not using a lot of on-camera flash in general.

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 30, 2010

So I finally got around to making this purchase--EOS 1-N RS for $295 + 15 shipping off eBay, including a spare battery pack and remote switch 60 T3.

Looking forward to putting some Tri-X behind my Zeiss 85/1.4 Planar ZE.

hpulley · Nov 30, 2010

Congrats! I really enjoy my 1N-RS. If you do use flash with it, a bonus is that you can see the picture the moment the flash fires while usually with an SLR the mirror is up of course. The 1N-RS still a lot cheaper than a 1V for some reason and I like the pellicle mirror, dust hasn't been an issue at all.

I need a T3 remote. For some reason I thought it was N3 but I was wrong...

Does your battery pack still charge or did you mean the 8-AA cell pack? That's all I have since every NiCad E1 I've come across won't hold a charge, too old and NiCads were never that good to begin with.

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 30, 2010

It's the 8-AA cell pack. It's possible to recell old Ni-Cd packs, but it's just easier to deal with AA rechargeables, I think.

I used to have the Ni-Cd Pack FN for my New F-1 motor drive, because it seemed insane to lug a camera with 12 AAs around in it, but eventually the pack wouldn't hold a charge, so I sold it to someone who wanted to take the trouble to recell it, and haven't regretted the move to the AA pack, which actually gets a better frame rate than the Ni-Cd pack on the New F-1 (5 fps vs. 4.5 fps), not that I really need the extra 0.5 fps, but the camera feels more responsive even in single frame mode.

hpulley · Nov 30, 2010

Recelling NiCad sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

On the F1 12 AAs is a lot, you have to lug even more if you have the EE finder too! I love the Canon FD and FL stuff too though I've actually put my motor drives away, when I'm shooting those cameras I like to wind the film myself, focus myself, set the exposure myself. I save the drives and auto exposure for EOS usually.

Speaking of responsive, the RS is amazing for that, can't beat 6 milliseconds! It is great to see the actual moment too so you know you got the shot you wanted when shooting action.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 4, 2010

My 1N-RS arrived and all seems to be working properly. First impression--It's bigger than I expected and despite all the ergonomics, I intuitively like the feel of my New F-1 better, but I guess using a camera for 27 years or so will do that to you. Preferring manual focus exclusively, the New F-1 screens seem more suited to the task than the stock RS screen, but the focus confirmation on the RS seems to function properly at least for iffy focus situations. I found the manual online, and it didn't seem to hard to figure out all the functions, which were a bit mysterious at first, but at least there aren't as many of them as on my Canon of the sort that's off-topic for APUG.

I like the pellicle mirror design, no mirror blackout, quick reaction time, and the option of high shutter speeds and 1/250 s flash sync speed (I know, no big deal anymore, but most of my cameras sync at much lower speeds).

I fed it my last roll of K64, and I'll give myself a week to shoot it, so I can get it to Dwayne's in time.

2F/2F · Dec 4, 2010

One more vote for the EOS 3. It has all the important parts of the performance of the 1V, and the price is right (usually under $200). Is isn't a brick outhouse like the 1's - only a cinderblock one. It is newer than the 1N-RS, and easier to use over all, IMO. The 1 series is great, but the way I see it, there is only one real reason to get the 1N-RS, and that is for its unique feature. If that will be of no use to you (and possibly be a detriment, e.g. light loss), then I would not get the camera. If you want a camera with a pellicle mirror, I'd just get a Pellix QL. Personally, I do not believe the mirror shake thing makes a bit of difference unless on a tripod anyhow, and I'd rather not have that light loss.

j-dogg · Dec 4, 2010

I'll toss a vote in for the Elan 7Ne, I shoot one and love it, it's the 35mm companion for my digital Rebel. I suppose one day I will upgrade to a 1-series but so far I am impressed with my 7Ne. I love it to pieces.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 4, 2010

I had the 1N-RS out today--strange sensation to be holding a 35mm SLR and not feel any mirror movement, and the film advance is very rapid and quiet.

Canon 1N RS vs. Canon 1v

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