Can you swap inserts on a RB67?

rbultman · Jun 9, 2015

Xmas said:
There is however a warning on the 645 shell as well as a warning on the 645 insert as the counter won't help to avoid an accident when you get to 11 you have wasted 10 clicks... You can see these on the photo.

Ah, thanks for the extra info on the 645 back. I don't have one for the RB. My first MF camera was the 645 Pro. I still have that so I don't feel the need to get the 645 back for the RB.

Xmas said:
If you forget to remove replace the box top during a shoot you have a problem.

Can you explain that last part please? Not sure I understand.

Xmas · Jun 9, 2015

All RB shells have a film carton end piece holder to allow you to work with multiple backs.

If you load a back in middle of a shoot with a different film type from the film you just removed it is bad to not replace the carton top if you swap backs.

I could not have a 645 back.

If I'm working outdoors cold and dark I only load film to arrows rather than to first frame to minimise kinks and shoot 10 or 20 load another insert normally ISO 400 mono.

rbultman · Jun 9, 2015

Thanks for the additional info Xmas, it's clear to me now.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2015

rbultman said:
As Matt King stated, the counter is in the insert, not the shell. it is on the insert next to the advance lever. Matt just forgot about the mask being part of the shell.

Oops - this has it right. I did forget about the mask, and didn't understand all of what Xmas was saying.

The RB backs are quite a bit different from other backs - way more of the mechanism is in the insert and way less is in the shell than, say, the Mamiya 645 interchangeable backs.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2015

On the subject of 645 backs in the RB67, I use mine because:
1) I like to shoot transparency film, and my projector will handle 6x4.5 slides, but won't handle 6x7 slides;
2) I like to have leaf shutters available, and I sold the leaf shutter lens I had for my Mamiya 645; and
3) The rotating back is one of my favourite features on the RB67, and it is just as helpful with 6x4.5 as it is with 6x7 (I do have a usable 6x4.5 viewfinder mask for my RB).

Xmas · Jun 9, 2015

rbultman said:
...
This is partially correct. If you use the 645 insert in the shell with the 6x7 mask, the frames will overlap since the mask in the shell is bigger than the advance mechanism in the 645 insert. Conversely, if you use the 6x7 insert in the 645 shell, nothing bad happens, you just only get 10 shots per roll instead of 15 for 120, or 20 instead of 30 for 220, and there is a lot of spacing between frames.

I suggest it was correct it might not have been complete but I'd not recommend your second option to the OP as he has a 625 insert it would be silly to use his 220 insert in other than the 220 carrier with 120 or 220 film.

The acid test is would you think of doing your 2nd option?

rbultman · Jun 9, 2015

I would suggest that both are silly and that the OP do neither. If he really wants to shoot 220 (or 120, I forget), I would suggest getting another back with the 'proper' setup.

I was merely trying to be complete but possibly came off as pedantic. Sorry to all for that.

Regards,
Rob

Xmas · Jun 10, 2015

Hi

I did not ask for an apology the op asked a question...

Dani said:
First post here, really new to medium format. I just got today a beautiful RB Pro SD that went through major surgery by Paul Ron, excellent work!

I got two backs for it a 4x5 120 and a 220. My quesfftions is, could I just swap the inserts and use the 4x5 120 in the "case" of the 220? the cases look the same except for the cut out.
Thanks!

The answer is use 120 in both but don't swap inserts between carriers... The 120 will work ok to frame 11 your best shots will be on frame 11.

The cautions

If you shoot cold and wide aperture the film may not be flat enough for monster enlargments.

You need to try a test 120 in each back to check that frame 1 and frame 10 (or 20) or 16 are on film.

I still have 220 mono in my fridge and gbag, you can get fresh colour.

Noel the pedantic

Xmas · Jun 10, 2015

And welcome to the forum.

John Koehrer · Jun 10, 2015

The shell has no idea what insert is being used. The insert controls the pressure plate and counter so as long as you want a 67 mask swap 'em to your hearts content.
You can use 120 film in a 220 insert but need to be aware of the frame counter not stopping (220 insert w/120 film)

paul ron · Jun 11, 2015

has nothing to do with thickness of film, rather light seal variences from one to another can be an issue.

the back is a 645, not 4x5.

if you use 120 in the 220 back, you will lose a frame because of where it starts. so shoot 9 frames n advance to the end when it feels free.

thanks for the plug Dani.

enjoy your camera...
now lets see some photos?

Xmas · Jun 11, 2015

paul ron said:
has nothing to do with thickness of film, rather light seal variences from one to another can be an issue.

the back is a 645, not 4x5.

if you use 120 in the 220 back, you will lose a frame because of where it starts. so shoot 9 frames n advance to the end when it feels free.

thanks for the plug Dani.

enjoy your camera...
now lets see some photos?

220 and 120 do have different leaders but I never shoot on frame 1 or ten or 20 if it is non repeatable and I load each film type different relative to the datum arrow.
Note this is with the dual standard backs with swappable pressure plates.

paul ron · Jun 12, 2015

with regular backs, the preasure plates are the same. the difference is in the winders n counters.

you can use one shell if all your backs are the same issue but be sure to have fresh seals as older seals get gummy with age n dont bounce back. compressed seals are considered seated and that means swap backs n you're looking for trouble light leaks... especially at the corners where rubber or neoprin was used.

Dani · Jul 1, 2015

Thanks everybody! I ended up buying a Pro-SD 120 back and just got some scans from the first roll. What a fun camera to work with.
Shot with the awesome 180mm.

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Sirius Glass · Jul 1, 2015

Dani said:
Thanks everybody! I ended up buying a Pro-SD 120 back and just got some scans from the first roll. What a fun camera to work with.
Shot with the awesome 180mm.

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Now for you to teach the youngin' about film and classical music1

1 Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendricks, and Cream

paul ron · Jul 4, 2015

AWSOME!

Can you swap inserts on a RB67?

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Can you swap inserts on a RB67?

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