Can you recommend a Black and White Enlarger for a beginner?

ted_smith · May 23, 2008

Further to this thread (there was a url link here which no longer exists), I now need to purchase an enlarger (I have sourced all the Ilford chemicals, papers etc now).

I shoot 35mm Black & White and so I need an enlarger to create my prints (not interested in venturing into the colour development for a while yet, if ever - I'll stick to the labs for that). I suppose I'd be looking at prints up to 10x8, maybe a bit bigger.

Can anyone recommend a good manufacturer and\or enlarger? I will then try to find one second hand. And does the lens size matter? I note some come with 50mm lenses, and others come with different sizes? Is there a manufacturr to avoid? I note Jessops sell Enlargers (or have done in the past - there's several on eBay) - are they any good or are they to be avoided? I noticed this enlarger by Beseler - are they all this size and this expensive!! (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Beseler-black...ryZ29987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Thanks

Ted

Nick Zentena · May 23, 2008

A few thoughts.

In todays world avoid beginner or amatuer models. Get the best pro model that will fit your space. Prices on used enlargers are almost nothing these days.

Get a MF or bigger enlarger if you can. You may not need it now but if you ever move up in format you'll be okay. They can be better made then 35mm only models.

50mm is usually the normal lens for 35mm film. But if you're only making 8x10s a longer lens shouldn't hurt.

Good makes? Durst and Devere?

Nick Zentena · May 23, 2008

One more thought. A colour enlarger will make B&W prints just fine. It'll handle spilt filtering with VC paper easily. The trade off is diffusion versus condensors. I'll let the others argue that one.

ted_smith · May 23, 2008

Thanks Nick.

I've gone and looked for a few Durst machines. I found this one for £20 - is it worht buying? I've searched the net and most people say good things about the Durst C35, as long as it has a decent lens (which you can apparently buy quite cheap anyway).

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Durst-C35-enl...ryZ29987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That said, this Philips PCS 130 pro looks good too - it has a Nikkor lens with it!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Philips-PCS-1...ryZ29987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Conversely, this one looks like a potential bargain - it's a MeOpta Axomat 5 black and white photographic enlarger with Paterson lens fitted. I'm not sure if either of these manufacturers are good?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Excellent-Bla...ryZ29987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Any advice warmly received. I don't want to get ripped off or buy something that is rubbish.

Ted

Konical · May 23, 2008

Good Afternoon, Ted,

There's a wealth of information (informed opinion??) here in the Forum. Do a Search for various enlarger and lens brands.

I think you will see a fairly strong concensus here that, given the bargain prices of used darkroom equipment right now, high-quality MF and LF enlargers and top-quality lenses are much preferable to less versatile equipment. About the only reason to favor a 35mm-only enlarger would be extremely limited work space. Remember that enlargers can be heavy, awkward, and expensive to ship, so something you can pick up locally may be a good idea.

Konical

sausage100uk · May 23, 2008

I bought an LPL (JOBO) 7700 for £50, came with 35 and 6x6 neg holders, the main thing you need to spend money on is a lens, same as with cameras really.

fschifano · May 23, 2008

Durst machines are really fine pieces of kit, but they are out of production and have never been as common as Beseler or Omega units. Obtaining any needed accessories, aside from lenses of course which are more or less universal, may be difficult and/or expensive. I'd prefer something for which parts are more readily available and less expensive. The Beseler and Omega machines fit the bill for me. Don't discount a color head either. There is no downside to using one for B&W work, and as a plus, the magenta and yellow filtration can be used instead of variable contrast filters for well over 90% of your needs. Some will argue that condenser type light sources are "better", but that is a question of taste more than anything. The diffused light source of a dichro color head goes a long way in supressing minute scratches and dust spots at the expense of perhaps 1/2 grade of paper contrast. The contrast reduction is easily compensated for with filtration. Print resolution is absolutely unaffected by the light source. Perceived sharpness is a function of local contrast.

For 35 mm work, I'd suggest a good 6 element 50 mm lens. Any in good condition from Nikon, Schneider, or Rodenstock will be perfectly fine. You will not be able to differentiate among any of them.

ted_smith · May 23, 2008

sausage100uk said:
the main thing you need to spend money on is a lens, same as with cameras really.

I assume the lenses are not the same as the one's you use with your camera? I have a Nikon 50mm but I assume I cannot use that with the enlarger? If not, where does one buy lenses for enlargers (apart from eBay)?

j4425 · May 23, 2008

Nick Zentena said:
A few thoughts.

In todays world avoid beginner or amatuer models. Get the best pro model that will fit your space. Prices on used enlargers are almost nothing these days.

Get a MF or bigger enlarger if you can. You may not need it now but if you ever move up in format you'll be okay. They can be better made then 35mm only models.

50mm is usually the normal lens for 35mm film. But if you're only making 8x10s a longer lens shouldn't hurt.

Good makes? Durst and Devere?

I initially wanted something very basic and ended up going for the beseler 45.I thought it was overkill. I never thought I would use it for anything other than 35mm. I'm now printing 6X7 and soon 4X5. I LOVE this enlarger. Incredibly well built and can be found dirt cheap. I paid $150.00 for mine complete with condenser head, 2 carriers, 50mm rodenstock. Mine also has the motorized rise.

Nick Zentena · May 23, 2008

fschifano said:
Durst machines are really fine pieces of kit, but they are out of production and have never been as common as Beseler or Omega units. .

He's in the UK. I'm guessing Beseler and Omega will be the rare ones.

Paul Howell · May 23, 2008

The Durst pro models are holding their prices, compare a D2 or Bessler 4X5 with a recent Durst Labatrory. I guess that Durst is more common in the U.K than here in the States. I have a basic Durst 601 and a D3. I use the Durst for 35mm and 6X6 the D3 for 6X9 and 4X5, the 601 is fine enlarger, but if I could only keep one enlarger I would go with the Omega. Camera lens can be used with a reveral ring as an enlarger lens, but as camera lens are designed differntly than enlarger lens I recommend a good quility enlarger lens.

yellowcat · May 23, 2008

ted_smith said:
I assume the lenses are not the same as the one's you use with your camera? I have a Nikon 50mm but I assume I cannot use that with the enlarger? If not, where does one buy lenses for enlargers (apart from eBay)?

An enlarger lens is not the same as a camera lens, it is threaded (usually with Leica 39mm Thread)rather than bayonet fitting and is designed to produce optimum results when the subject(your negative) is closer th the lens than the image.

Ebay is good for enlarger lenses - you can pick up a quality lens for a few pounds. Otherwise try local camera shops- you may be lucky.
You can still buy top quality new enlarger lenses but they are expensive, a new 50mm Schneider Componon S Enlarger Lenses would set you back around £160 or a Rodenstock 50mm f2.8 Apo-Rodagon-N would be around £250

yellowcat · May 23, 2008

I saw this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rodagon-50mm-...ryZ29987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

new price £150:

http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=1868&PT_ID=444&P=Rodagon

MartinP · May 23, 2008

If you can find one, I'd recommend a De Vere having used a 504 for years at work and now having a 203 at home. New they would cost thousands, but these days ? A few hundred at the most. There is no better enlarger brand, but several equals of course.

As someone pointed out, it makes little sense to buy a US-made enlarger if you are in the UK - and vice-versa - because of the spares problems. Cheaper than the De Vere (and less incredible, while still being solidly made and of good design) would be a Meopta. They are still in production, so most parts are readily available too. The Opemus is the 35mm and 6x6 model, with Axomat going up to 6x9.

John Bragg · May 23, 2008

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/De-Vere-504-D...ryZ29987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This one looks worth a bid. De vere 504...

thefizz · May 26, 2008

Try www.ffordes.com, they have lots of used enlarger lenses. I first started on a Meopta Axomat 5 and found it to be a solid sturdy enlarger but I'd advise you to maybe look for one of the Opemus models in case you go to medium format. I now have a Fujimoto G70 colour enlarger and love it for B&W printing.

RobC · May 26, 2008

Dursts last line of enlargers were the M370 M670 M805 Modular 70 and L1200

M370 will print upto 12x16 on the baseboard and can be had very cheaply. M670 will print bigger, probably upto 20x16. Either of those two are good beginners enlargers and both can be converted to print upto 6x7 negs. Parts such as negative masks and condensers are still available for them from the durst online shop.
Secondhand ones are available from http://www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk/ even cheaper on ebay.

The modular 70 pro has great flexibility with at least 4 different heads available but less parts available. The M670 condensors fit the Modular 70 B+W head and the negative carrier is the same.

Personally I would get an enlarger capable of upto 6x7cm and get all the bits as soon as possible as in a few years it will become increasingly difficult to find bits. So an M670 or Modular 70 are the ones to go for unless you are sure you never want to print on paper bigger then 12x16 in which case the M370 is good enough.

RobC · May 26, 2008

For 35mm film a 50mm lens is the norm. Unless you are printing big(20x16) then a standard 50mm lens such as Rodenstock Rodagon is perfectly good enough. Problems with enlarger alignment are far more likely to be the cause of unsharp prints than a dodgy enalrger lens is, especially when you have a new enlarger setup. Schneider componon-s lens is a step up in lens quality but you wouldn't know it if you are only printing 8x10.

Kvistgaard · May 26, 2008

rob champagne said:
Personally I would get an enlarger capable of upto 6x7cm and get all the bits as soon as possible as in a few years it will become increasingly difficult to find bits. So an M670 or Modular 70 are the ones to go for unless you are sure you never want to print on paper bigger then 12x16 in which case the M370 is good enough.

- I have two 670s, and can vouch for this particular model. I'd suggest you buy a couple of them second hand. Use one, and keep the other for spare parts. As Rob says, they are highly modular.

pentaxuser · May 26, 2008

Ted. Might be worth contacting any and every local camera club in your area to check if any "switchers to digi" are getting rid of their enlargers That way you can inspect the enlarger before buying. Some e-bay sellers are reluctant to send by post due to cost etc. Might also be worth looking for any selling for local pick-up even if this means 2/3hours of travel. Sellers who restrict themselves to local pick-up often have to forego the best prices. If the enlarger is still assembled, suggest it is left that way so you can check it then dissemble and take away. Then re-assembly only an hour or two later is much easier than figuring out assembly from scratch.

Nova and Secondhand Darkroom sell a range of secondhand with guaranteed quality and "come back" if things go wrong. You can talk to experts at both places. Carriage charges at both are reasonable and especially at Nova who still employ a one carriage charge, I think, irrespective of weight.

I have a Durst M605 with colour head which does up to 6x6 and is quite a neat size for an MF enlarger but to be honest I'd opt for a 67 if I had my time over again on the just in case principle of going for a 67 camera in the future.

pentaxuser

ted_smith · May 28, 2008

All

I am, as ever, grateful for your advice. Several of you have PM'd me with further advice and offerings.

Long story short, I e-mailed Secondhand Darkroom and Paul Patterson has replied to me with what sounds to me like a great deal :

GNOME 35mm B/W ENLARGER £45.00,
lens £20,
focus finder £10,
trays and tongs £10.
Total with delivery £89.95

Now, I'm thinking of foregoing the lens because another fine APUG member has offered me a mint Apo-Rodagon 50mm f2,8 for £50 (I don't want to name him incase one of you guys pips me to the post!!).

All in all, does this sound OK? Remember, I'm a beginner, only interested in 35mm and only interested in Black and White. I appreciate that I'm restricting myself, but if\when I decide to go either to a larger format and\or to colour I can always go for a better enlarger then - what I don;t want to do is spend £300 and then decide that home printing is not for me. £45 for an enlarger plus several other useful bits, and £50 for a quality lens sounds like a good 'starting out' deal to me. ???? As always, your views before taking this leap will be massively appreciated.

RobC · May 28, 2008

I don't know why you bother asking. You have ignored every bit of advice given and gone for the out and out cheapest bit of kit you can lay your hands on.

RobC · May 28, 2008

If you are really interested in black and white printing, then spend your money on a city & guilds B+W photography course which are still run by many colleges around the country as evening classes. Then you will know whether you want to spend money on a reasonable enlarger or a pile junk and you might actually learn something.

Paul Howell · May 28, 2008

ted_smith said:
All

I am, as ever, grateful for your advice. Several of you have PM'd me with further advice and offerings.

Long story short, I e-mailed Secondhand Darkroom and Paul Patterson has replied to me with what sounds to me like a great deal :

GNOME 35mm B/W ENLARGER £45.00,
lens £20,
focus finder £10,
trays and tongs £10.
Total with delivery £89.95

Now, I'm thinking of foregoing the lens because another fine APUG member has offered me a mint Apo-Rodagon 50mm f2,8 for £50 (I don't want to name him incase one of you guys pips me to the post!!).

All in all, does this sound OK? Remember, I'm a beginner, only interested in 35mm and only interested in Black and White. I appreciate that I'm restricting myself, but if\when I decide to go either to a larger format and\or to colour I can always go for a better enlarger then - what I don;t want to do is spend £300 and then decide that home printing is not for me. £45 for an enlarger plus several other useful bits, and £50 for a quality lens sounds like a good 'starting out' deal to me. ???? As always, your views before taking this leap will be massively appreciated.

With a good lens an inexpensive enlarger can make good prints. Generally speaking a more expensive enlarger will stand up to wear and tear better, make larger prints, and may be just easier to use. I have no idea what a Gnome is, perhaps similiar to a Vivitra or Bogen in the states. At one point in my life all I had access to was Vivitar 35mm with a Kodak Extar 50mm. Once I had it in alinement I was able to make some very good 8X10 and 11X14 prints.

pentaxuser · May 28, 2008

Ted. I am sure it will be OK but a couple of points which you may have checked out. Does it have a filter drawer? You can put filters under the lens but it's a bit of a pain. I have a Gnome Beta as a spare which doesn't have a filter drawer and its column is a little flimsy compared to my Durst. It isn't a rack and pinion column either so getting exact height isn't easy.

Mine is meant for up to 6x9 negs which were the most prevalent size when it was made - probably early 50s and has a glass carrier. I got ti from the brother-in-law who used to print many years ago and did some 6x9 neg prints for him but it was a pretty primitive instrument.

Yours may have none of these drawbacks but if you have the darkroom facilities then I think you are likely to be bitten by the printing bug and may then find that the Gnome is a less than you'd like to have. The more primitive the tools then the harder it is to achieve the success you may want.

Of course you can always trade-up in the future but expect to lose a bit on the Gnome on e-bay. I think you may want to trade up sooner than you think. Maybe if you do want to graduate in the near future to better if not bigger, SDS would consider a part exchange. It might be worth asking what he'd give in part exchange if you did up-grade in a matter of months.

The first step is always a step into the unknown but at least you're taking it.

Best of luck

pentaxuser

Can you recommend a Black and White Enlarger for a beginner?

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