Can you explain why HCB chose this photo?

Pieter12 · Dec 13, 2024

Don_ih said:
So, only those with the proper credentials should have anything to say?

No. But the opinion of those with "proper credentials" probably holds more weight than others. Unlike the opinion of the unwashed masses, which seems to be the norm nowadays.

Don_ih · Dec 13, 2024

Pieter12 said:
But the opinion of those with "proper credentials" probably holds more weight than others. Unlike the opinion of the unwashed masses

An opinion (a statement) should be judged on the merit of its content and not on the type of mouth that utters it.

MattKing · Dec 13, 2024

Don_ih said:
An opinion (a statement) should be judged on the merit of its content and not on the type of mouth that utters it.

Yes and no.
The source of the opinion may very well have been a source of many things of value in the past. That sort of past history of value does matter.
It certainly shouldn't be conclusive.

Pieter12 · Dec 13, 2024

Don_ih said:
An opinion (a statement) should be judged on the merit of its content and not on the type of mouth that utters it.

I'll remember that the next time I solicit a second opinion on medical matters.

Vaughn · Dec 13, 2024

koraks said:
(1) You like it.
(2) You don't.

(A) Spend more time with it.
(B) Move on, spend time elsewhere.
...

One way to learn is if one travels the route of 2-A-1-B

Why don't I like it? Is it due to my lack of understanding...is there anything I can learn from it? Why did it move me to an emotion...one of dis-like? Was there something about the subject, composition, light, or combination that spoke undesired words to me? Was it on purpose (and then perhaps a successful photograph)?

But I see a lot of 3B reaction, where "3" is "I don't care".

Don_ih · Dec 13, 2024

Pieter12 said:
I'll remember that the next time I solicit a second opinion on medical matters.

Go ahead, if you think you are qualified to judge medical opinions.

MattKing said:
The source of the opinion may very well have been a source of many things of value in the past. That sort of past history of value does matter.

Sure it does, particularly if you are aware of it. I don't know how aware people are of the other member's personal histories on this forum. In the meantime, judge the statements for what they claim and how they support those claims, not what name is associated with them.

Very well-educated and otherwise intelligent people can have very incorrect opinions.

Harry Callahan · Dec 13, 2024

koraks said:
He threw a turd at us so a bunch of amateur darkroom enthusiasts with a collection of moldy cameras could debate whether it's good or not, and in the process unmask the charlatan. HCB is chuckling in his grave.

I assume you being sarcastic here, as this neither is what i meant nor said.
And this picture is breaking the pattern, because of which this topic was started.

Pieter12 · Dec 13, 2024

Don_ih said:
Go ahead, if you think you are qualified to judge medical opinions.

Why does one get a second medical opinion in the first place? If not to judge them, at least to compare them. But I still wouldn't get a second medical opinion from a plumber.

Don_ih said:
Very well-educated and otherwise intelligent people can have very incorrect opinions.

Speak for yourself, John. Res ipsa loquitur.

snusmumriken · Dec 14, 2024

Moderator, please would you lock this thread now? As the OP, I don’t feel it is achieving anything further now.

Don_ih · Dec 14, 2024

Pieter12 said:
Why does one get a second medical opinion in the first place? If not to judge them, at least to compare them. But I still wouldn't get a second medical opinion from a plumber.

You can compare two things you don't understand. Your comparison is likely to be superficial. One tends to defer to expertise in specialized fields when ignorant about them.

So are you saying that photographers (even amateur ones) are not qualified to talk about photos? Because what we've been talking about here is a photo.

And, yes, the point of what you're saying is obvious. Untrained, uneducated, uninformed people spout off all kinds of opinions about all kinds of things. The banality of what they're saying tends to betray them. And if someone believes their forwarded-TikTok wisdom, that's just too bad. You can't go policing the things other people are likely to say just because you don't think they're entitled to speak. Use your own judgment to determine if what they're saying is worth anything.

You know, you're plumber might know exactly what's wrong with you.

snusmumriken said:
As the OP, I don’t feel it is achieving anything further now.

It probably isn't. But everyone will stop talking pretty soon, anyway.

pentaxuser · Dec 14, 2024

Pieter12 said:
I'll remember that the next time I solicit a second opinion on medical matters.

The good news is that a second , third, fourth etc opinion is free on YouTube

Have we formed any broadly common views on why HCB chose the photo?

pentaxuser

Arthurwg · Dec 14, 2024

Don_ih said:
Y
You know, you're plumber might know exactly what's wrong with you.

I know one plumber and he's really a fool.

Alex Benjamin · Dec 14, 2024

pentaxuser said:
Have we formed any broadly common views on why HCB chose the photo?

Yes. Posts #87 & #88.

Don_ih · Dec 14, 2024

Arthurwg said:
I know one plumber and he's really a fool.

I've met maybe 100 or so. They're just like everyone else.

MattKing · Dec 14, 2024

snusmumriken said:
Moderator, please would you lock this thread now? As the OP, I don’t feel it is achieving anything further now.

We will consider that.
But it might be wise to consider again the exact question that was raised at the beginning.
Not whether a particular photo has any particular value.
Instead, why a particular photographer might have chosen a particular photo for inclusion in one of his many books of photos.

retina_restoration · Dec 14, 2024

snusmumriken said:
Moderator, please would you lock this thread now? As the OP, I don’t feel it is achieving anything further now.

Agreed. This has become an obnoxious battle of egos.

Milpool · Dec 14, 2024

There is no good reason to lock this thread. It’s burning itself out into dormancy like any other thread.

pentaxuser · Dec 14, 2024

Alex Benjamin said:
Yes. Posts #87 & #88.

Thanks That makes sense to me in terms of why it meant something to him and good detective work on your part but unless it was accompanied by an explanation it is not likely to make sense to viewers of it, is it? So why he took it is now solved but why he included it in a book unless viewers are told the context is that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe by the time you get to the picture in the book there is enough information there so that the viewer can make a connection?

In terms of answering the OP's question the thread might as well have stopped there but instead has reached the point where like many threads that never end, it has become vexatious with little or no benefit to any respondents

pentaxuser

BrianShaw · Dec 14, 2024

This is the Internet. EVERYTHING is potentially vexatious to somebody. LOL

I tend to agree that the value has diminished and thank you for making that decision on everyone else’s behalf.

BrianShaw · Dec 14, 2024

Going back to square 1… I now have additional and interesting insights into possible reasons why the artist liked or published the image. It still doesn’t quite resonate with me, though.

Alex Benjamin · Dec 14, 2024

pentaxuser said:
Thanks That makes sense to me in terms of why it meant something to him and good detective work on your part but unless it was accompanied by an explanation it is not likely to make sense to viewers of it, is it? So why he took it is now solved but why he included it in a book unless viewers are told the context is that doesn't make sense to me.

Why would he want it to make sense to the viewer? Artistically, the man was close to the Surrealists; spiritually, close to Buddhism. Such a man doesn't provide explanations. His photographs are half poems by André Breton and Philippe Soupault, half Zen koans.

Moreover, this book, made and published in the late 70s, at a time when Cartier-Bresson had stopped taking photographs, was meant as a visual biography. In fact, it's about as close as an autobiography as you can get with him. He profoundly disliked talking about himself. Have you read the collection of interviewed published by Aperture (Interviews and Conversations 1951-1998). It's fascinating. It spans nearly five decades of an amazing career, and you learn, well... not much—or seemingly so: the simplicity, clarity of his thought, paradoxically, was a riddle.

What was clear for him is that, for a while, he was a photographer. His self was defined as being a photographer, in the sense that, as he said, the camera was the extension of his eye, and he lived to look and to see, through the camera. At least for a while. Until he was no longer a photographer. By choice. The title of the book, Henri Cartier-Bresson: photographe, is not innocent. It's not meant to put forward his "best" photos. It's meant to cover his life as a seeing person through photography.

But I'd venture to say that that's the case with most great photography books. The viewer is often irrelevant, or rather, what he understands, or not, about the photos is. The role of the photographer is not to explain what he did in order for the viewer to understand, the same way the role of the poet is not to explain his poem in order for the reader to understand. What good would poetry be in such a case? What value would it have? Same with photos: sometimes, not understanding is, if not the point, at least the path.

Again, Robert Adams' brilliant quote is so relevant: "Landscape pictures can offer us, I think, three verities—geography, autobiography, and metaphor."

Take away "geography," and this fits with most great photography.

cliveh · Dec 14, 2024

Every artist who has ever existed produces a certain amount of crap, even Van Gogh. The picture may have personal meaning to HCB, but for most people it's of little interest. Move on.

pentaxuser · Dec 14, 2024

BrianShaw said:
This is the Internet. EVERYTHING is potentially vexatious to somebody. LOL

You are probably right but I can't help feeling that Photrio is unfortunately following the trend and is more vexatious than it once was when I joined

pentaxuser

BrianShaw · Dec 14, 2024

pentaxuser said:
You are probably right but I can't help feeling that Photrio is unfortunately following the trend and is more vexatious than it once was when I joined

pentaxuser

I completely understand and agree. It’s a pendulum and the beat depends on both members and moderators at any point in time. Personally, I find the insights of the “rascals” often quite compelling, as evidenced by the banter in this thread. When I tire of it, I go away rather than suggesting the discussion go away.

Alex Benjamin · Dec 14, 2024

cliveh said:
but for most people it's of little interest.

I'd venture that it's because most people stick to the surface of things and don't take the time to wonder or find out what is or may be interesting about it. But that's modern life for you.

cliveh said:
Move on.

Moreover, I'd also venture that just about the entire output of all major, and many minor, photographers in the last hundred years is of little interest (if any) for probably well over 99.9% of the population in our respective countries. That's a lot of moving on. To a point where one wonders why we bother discussing about photographs at all, if moving on we must.

Can you explain why HCB chose this photo?

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