But it's still a good idea to take everything people say with a grain of salt.
Some photographers don't give good interviews, they are more visual than verbal.
s is comparing HCB with Joe Dude-Guy trying to build his community on YouTube by giving advice on which version of the Pentax 67 one should buy.
If HBC had cell phones to compete with, no one would know his name.
There is what is, and what has been. There is no "if". "If" things were different is not an argument—or an argument that can be made for just about everybody that has ever lived before our time: if Plato was alive today, if Da Vinci was alive today, if Picasso was alive today, if Virginia Woolf was alive today... That everybody belongs to their time is a truism that leads us nowhere.
And I stand firm: if Joe Dude-Guy had the talent, instinct and intelligence of HCB, he wouldn't be wasting his time trying to build a community on YT telling people which version of the Pentax 67 they should get.
Moreover, I there are lots of photojournalists out there following HCB's example—i.e., trying to explain the world either to us, or to themselves. That—the need to understand— belongs to all time.
HBC may just be a YouTube guy, if he were alive now. His influence. his talent, his art were as much a product of his time as they were his product. Otherwise, I agree with you. But you can't compare him with anyone who has benefited or not from his existence. Diminishing what is available to people now is not fair, in comparison with an totally uncharted world that was available 90 years ago.
If HBC had cell phones to compete with, no one would know his name.
HCB would have loved using a smart phone. The Leica would sit on a shelf.
That everybody belongs to their time is a truism that leads us nowhere.
I strongly disagree. Serious people—those who think about what they do, those who take the time to investigate the mysteries of art and/or life—, be it writers, artists, philosophers, photographers, etc., deserve to be taken seriously. Thinking is not a bad thing, and sharing these thoughts is an act of generosity, and comes out of necessity, not ego.
Now nobody forces anybody to read anything. If one doesn't want to dive deep into a philosopher, artist, writer, photographer's thought process, that's up to each person. Either you want to understand more, or you don't. But to dismiss it "with a grain of salt" is an insult to the miracle of human intelligence.
As is comparing HCB with Joe Dude-Guy trying to build his community on YouTube by giving advice on which version of the Pentax 67 one should buy.
If anybody is a fully-dressed emperor, it's HCB.
Just because an artist is famous doesn't make them the keeper of truth. Nor do unknown artists lack the ability to know the truth.
I often ask questions of posters here of photographers who aren't famous and whom I don't really know. They're serious people, but are they knowledgeable about the topics they preach about? Maybe. I have to use judgment with their answers and advice, and I often believe them.
What about so-called experts? Ever notice how experts are often divided on subjects? Half the economists with PhDs say the economy is great, and the other half claim we're going into recession. Same with the stock market pickers, horse racing aficionados, etc. These experts can't all be correct. It's worse in the arts where so much is feeling, emotion, innate talent, etc. How do you measure these things? Just because an artist is famous doesn't make them the keeper of truth. Nor do unknown artists lack the ability to know the truth.
What about so-called experts? Ever notice how experts are often divided on subjects? Half the economists with PhDs say the economy is great, and the other half claim we're going into recession. Same with the stock market pickers, horse racing aficionados, etc.
It's worse in the arts where so much is feeling, emotion, innate talent, etc. How do you measure these things?
He'd admit that Joe Dude-Guy on YouTube can have a level of fame but questions how serious he is. But if Joe Dude-Guy wants views on YouTube, he has to provide his audience what they want.
Acutally, all economists agree whether the economy is good or bad. It's how to fix it when it's bad that they don't agree upon, which is normal because so much of the (of our) economy is based on speculation. As for horse-racing experts, well, pretty normal they can't agree on which horse is gonna win, no?
Elsewhere, if you take the time to look, you'd realize that 99% of all scientists agree on 99% of scientific matters, from the creating of the universe to the effects of man-made climate change. Those who disagree, or spread misinformation about such matters, are either non experts but pretend to be when they have a camera in their face—and I'll stop here because this can get political very fast.
Now if you are telling me that art critics and art historians don't agree that Da Vinci, Delacroix, Monet, Caravaggio, Velasquez, etc., were all great painters, that Cartier-Bresson, Robert Frank, Dorothea Lange, Diane Arbus, Robert Adams, Gordon Parks, etc. were all great photographers, and that the greatness and depth of their works, way above what the average artist or photographer can do in a lifetime, cannot be described, then we really have nothing to talk about.
I don't know why you make this about fame. We're not talking the Kardashians, who are famous because they are famous—that very modern phenomenon in which fame is both a means to an end and the end itself. Cartier-Bresson, Robert Frank, Dorothea Lange, Diane Arbus, etc., are famous because they produced great work. And people talk about the greatness of these works not because the people who produced them are famous but because they took the time to look at the works, think about the works, be moved by they works and try to understand what makes them great, including all that is inherently mysterious about the greatness of works of art.
Are there non famous people who have also produced great works? Of course! Just think if Vivian Maier's work would not have been found and simply destroyed after her death. That in no way diminishes the greatness of the other artists' accomplishments.
Now if you don't believe in greatness, if you don't want to acknowledge that of Cartier-Bresson's work, or if you don't want to stop and take the time to try to understand why so many people see greatness in his works, that's your prerogative. To me, it comes to a question of trust, of levels of trust. When Ernst Gombrich tells me about the greatness of an artwork, I trust him, not because he bears the title "expert", but because I've read him, tried to understand what he says about art—The Story of Art is a fantastic book, by the way—and decide that he's an expert I can trust. That's how it works.
Now if you don't trust anybody's expertise, if you don't trust the fact that some people have more knowledge than you and that you can learn something from this knowledge and better understand the works of art you love and admire, to me, that's entering a realm of pure cynicism in which I cannot find myself. And it goes against my deep belief that ignorance is a blessing and the ability to learn from others a blessing.
I'd say the same thing about Joe Dude-Guy than stated above: levels of trust, and audience expectation—because, as opposed to all great photographer, he's playing for an audience, as you adequately point out.
I'm not dismissing Joe Dude-Guy, to make it clear. The ones I've found I can trust have guided me immensely, from helping me buy my Pentax 67 to figuring out how to bleach my prints (honestly, a life-changer).
“Acutally, all economists agree whether the economy is good or bad.”
Depends on your definition and tolerances for “good or bad”. Not necessarily true as different economists use different models and metrics. Just like different meteorologists will give different predictions. Only the past is certain and more likely to achieve consensus. It’s okay for experts to have variations of the right answer and never reach a full consensus. Only people who can’t, or don’t want to, think and understand insist on a single answer or opinion. Usually they focus on their own opinion or desired answer, no matter how ill informed it may be.
“Elsewhere, if you take the time to look, you'd realize that 99% of all scientists agree on 99% of scientific matters, from the creating of the universe to the effects of man-made climate change.”
The “99% agreement” is likely a bit of confirmation bias…
Here's a pretty good documentary about him—in which he does talk about a few photos, concluding "There's no explanation".
If HBC had cell phones to compete with, no one would know his name.
Good point. Corporate profits, growth of GDP and the value of real estate suggest one thing, while the 650,000 US homeless and working-class people who struggle to put food on the table suggests another.Depends on your definition and tolerances for “good or bad”. Not necessarily true as different economists use different models and metrics.
I diagree with ALex, Brian, economists disagree virulently. They are not in lockstep. The Fed is a perfect example. Here are experts in the field, with PhDs in economics who missed inflation and kept rates too low then kept them too high and are now probably going too low too fast again. How can so many experts get it wrong? Meanwhile, other expert economists were telling them they were wrong. Just because some guy in MOMA says an artist is great, everyone jumps on the me-too bandwagon. After all, no one wants to be called ignorant by disagreeing with the so-called experts. I agree with you it's often confirmation bias.
Fabulous. Thanks for posting. At one time years ago I thought HCB had done photography a disservice because his influence was so pervasive and compelling, not to mention his not-to-crop doctrine. Thousands tried to copy him, but of course no one could.
Wiliam Eggleston is a famous photographer. I;m, not impressed. To me his work is boring and trite. He says nothing to me.
So if some guy at MOMA tells me he's great, I should therefore follow his advice and shoot snaps?
For those of us who love the photos regardless of his reputation, this thread is about his possible reasons for showcasing one particular photo that seems a surprising choice.
Don't be silly.
Sure, he could still be great - but could he be noticed?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?