Can we turn any developer into hi-concentrate one shot type?

[joho]

Just an idea, Can a devloper like ID-11--D76 &&&& --can we turn into hi-concentrate one shot type?

 

[Paul Howell]

Good question, never considered it, but don't think so, some of chem used in D76 and the like may no go into a concentrated solution without participating out.

 

[MattKing]

No.
As @Paul Howell posted, the chemical components generally can't be dissolved into most diluents at the concentrations that would be necessary. They just "precipitate" out (which is what I expect @Paul Howell meant).
This is the reason that HC-110 in its classic very concentrated form disappeared from the market for a long time - the method used to make it was complex and expensive and required specialized equipment. Apparently, ADOX has brought a similar product back to the marketplace, but at a higher cost than the Kodak branded version, which itself is no longer called HC-110.

 

[Sanug]

I mix the 1 litre package Adox XT-3 with the half amount of water and fill it into 10 pieces of 50ml glass bottles. When I have to develop a film, I dilute properly to get 1+1, 1+2 or 1+3 one-shot. It is very convenient and keeps the concentrate fresh until it will be used.

Don't try it with D-76. It will fail.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Not unless you have an organic synthesis lab & research team available. The big manufacturers found there are issues with the HC/ HC-110 type of non-aqueous high concentration developer, which is a big part of why their most high tech developers are generally aqueous and about as concentrated as the sulphite content will allow. Ilford did research and patent substitutes that might allow for an HC type developer without the problems they identified, but it seems that they found the route of Ilfosol 3 offered a more innovative (and frankly cheaper to commercialise) approach in an aqueous developer at a reasonable concentration (1+9 or 1+14).

 

[F4U]

I thought about this once myself, knowing nothing of the science involved. Till it occurred to me to question any practical reason to even need to. Eastman Kodak Co paid katrillions of dollars employing the best scientists there are, and the products as they were put on the market are the results of all that. Can anyone top THAT act? Not hardly. Kodak mastered photography for dummies and perfectionists alike.

 

[MattKing]

I thought about this once myself, knowing nothing of the science involved. Till it occurred to me to question any practical reason to even need to. Eastman Kodak Co paid katrillions of dollars employing the best scientists there are, and the products as they were put on the market are the results of all that. Can anyone top THAT act? Not hardly. Kodak mastered photography for dummies and perfectionists alike.

Kodak did it with HC-110, which served the interests of a vastly larger market. It would have never happened with the marketplace being the relatively tiny size it is now.

Of course, a lot of technical advances have happened since Eastman Kodak radically downsized or eliminated much of its R&D. It was probably those advancements that permitted ADOX to develop there more modern replacement for HC-110, albeit at a higher cost than many people want to pay.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Just an idea, Can a devloper like ID-11--D76 &&&& --can we turn into hi-concentrate one shot type?

FWIW D-76 is itself a concentrate that can be used one shot, if one wants, at dilution 1+9 by adding small amounts of Sodium Hydroxide (~0.5 g/l) to the working solution.

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

It might be possible to create a concentrated MQ Borax type.

Metol 5.0 grams
Sodium Sulphite, anhydrous 125 grams
Sodium metabisulphite 1 gram
Hydroquinone 12.5 grams
Kodalk 2 grams
Borax 3.4 grams
Water to make 1 litre of concentrate.

Dilute 1+4 and try the times for D-76 and ID11 when those developers are diluted 1+1.

For extra high speed films like Tmax P3200TMZ and Delta 3200, use it diluted 2+3 and try the times for undiluted D-76/ID11.

The Sulphite levels will be lower than the working solutions of regular D-76 and ID11 though, but it might not make a significant difference to the end results.

 

[joho]

what is it with sulphite that it makes a thick syrup

 

[Alan Johnson]

It can be seen here that at 20C potassium sulfite can comprise up to about 51% by weight of a solution in water. This is nearly double the solubility of sodium sulfite.

https://srdata.nist.gov/solubility/IUPAC/SDS-26/SDS-26-pages_90.pdf

In theory it would be possible to make a stronger D-76 type concentrate but not for homebrews as potassium sulfite is only available in drums of concentrate solution for commercial use.