Can toning increase the blacks of a print?

koraks · Jun 11, 2023

snusmumriken said:
it seems more like a refinement than a disagreement.

Indeed - a relevant one. That's all I'm saying

Sirius Glass · Jun 11, 2023

bernard_L said:
A pitch for split grade printing. I fail to see how this addresses the issue about highlight separation:

In split grade printing, the highlights are resulting from the yellow filter exposure; the magenta exposure contributing essentially nothing. So, the characteristic curve under the yellow filter has a toe, etc... as already stated.

To get the whites to pop sometimes requires diluted bleach and a water rinse.

Sirius Glass · Jun 11, 2023

pentaxuser said:
silvercloud2323, you might want to take a look at this video on split grade printing to see what can be done and see if this offers you any ideas for the kind of improvement you want

pentaxuser

I found that for me using magenta first is easier and that also lets me see the overall print easier in the beginning. Either way magenta first or yellow first gets to the same print.

pentaxuser · Jun 11, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
I found that for me using magenta first is easier and that also lets me see the overall print easier in the beginning. Either way magenta first or yellow first gets to the same print.

Yes, from the video it does seem to improve things. It may not be what our OP wants but it was worth throwing it into the ring - just in case

pentaxuser

MattKing · Jun 11, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
I found that for me using magenta first is easier and that also lets me see the overall print easier in the beginning. Either way magenta first or yellow first gets to the same print.

It varies a bit with the subject.
For example, high key images are easier to deal with if you start first with the green or minus blue (yellow) filtration.

Doremus Scudder · Jun 11, 2023

bernard_L said:
One comment about whites. I dissent with the advice (given twice above) to aim for max white. Paper has a toe, therefore placing the lightest regions at paper white degrades the separation of light tones, running counter to the goal (presumably highlight brillance). And... check for drydown.

One question re: max black. I recall reading that Se toning with more dilute toner tends to favor Dmax improvement rather than tone shift. And vice versa. Can anyone confirm based on personal experience? Please state which paper.

Based on personal experience: Diluting selenium toner slows down the toning time. The same effects happen, it just takes longer. I think people believe that dilute toner increases D-max without so much tonal shift simply because they end up toning less out of impatience.

Best,

Doremus

warden · Jun 11, 2023

pentaxuser said:
silvercloud2323, you might want to take a look at this video on split grade printing to see what can be done and see if this offers you any ideas for the kind of improvement you want

pentaxuser

I used to use this approach too, using two test strips with individual 0 and 5 filters, but now I prefer to make a 0 test strip and then take that time and make a 0+5 test strip so you can see better what the final image will be. Both approaches work.

koraks · Jun 11, 2023

Doremus Scudder said:
I think people believe that dilute toner increases D-max without so much tonal shift simply because they end up toning less out of impatience.

Yes, I think so, too. Perhaps not just impatience but in many cases also because they really wouldn't want to take it any further because of the hue shift. In that case, a dilute toner gives a bit more control. I personally quite like the hue shift (to an extent) and hence prefer to use a somewhat stronger dilution.

Sirius Glass · Jun 11, 2023

koraks said:
Yes, I think so, too. Perhaps not just impatience but in many cases also because they really wouldn't want to take it any further because of the hue shift. In that case, a dilute toner gives a bit more control. I personally quite like the hue shift (to an extent) and hence prefer to use a somewhat stronger dilution.

Choose the toner that gives the hue shift that you would prefer.

DREW WILEY · Jun 12, 2023

With gold toner to COOL and deepen the image, the emulsion can only hold so much, and there's no sense wasting it. Most published formulas waste it like crazy. And gold chloride isn't cheap unless you do wisely ration it out per session. Just replace more concentration with a little more toning time - same effect. But selenium behaves differently - unless you want a deep brown, you'll want to dilute it down to at least 1:20 or the toning might proceed too fast to predictably control. Brown sulphide toners are even tricker, and need case by case experimentation; and the result isn't always immediately apparent. Keep one of your "near-miss" prints still around for test purposes.

Can toning increase the blacks of a print?

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Can toning increase the blacks of a print?

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