Can someone explain to me the genuine Leica 28-50 LTM adapter?

Hola!

I have a genuine Leica M2/M3 28-50 Adapter. The M2 had 35mm frame lines as its widest, the M3 has 50mm frame lines as its widest. So what does the 28mm part mean on this adapter?
I have tried it on my Ms that DO have 28mm frame lines - and on everyone of those it pulls up the 50mm frame lines.

So, what does the 28mm bit refer to?
Thanks!

Asking my friend, the internet, apparently the older adapters are marked M2 and M3 indicating which frame lines they will bring up on those cameras. Newer adapters are marked with just the frame line focal lengths, At one time, Leica made an adapter marked M2 50 M3 28-50. Why they were marking an adapter for frame lines that don't exist on a camera is anyones guess. Somewhere along the line the M2 and M3 were dropped from the stamping leaving you with the mystery 28-50 adapter. If you check KEH's website the have a photo of the adapter marked M2 50 M3 28-50. Here’s a link to the Leica User Forum about the same question: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/316438-ltm-to-m-adapters/

It probably predates any 28mm frameline cameras. In other words, it is a 50mm adapter. I suspect the 90mm adapters at the time only had 90 written on them.

I thought you used the cheap ones? Been meaning to ask you which ones. I need a 28/90 for a Jupiter.

madNbad said:

.. At one time, Leica made an adapter marked M2 50 M3 28-50.

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That is the one I have/am talking about. No idea why it says 28mm because neither those cameras use 28mm frame lines, nor does it pull them up on any other M.

Check the link, apparently it was to give the most view when using a 28 on an M3.

Patrick Robert James said:

I thought you used the cheap ones? Been meaning to ask you which ones. I need a 28/90 for a Jupiter.

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I do now. I highly recommend the Fotodiox ones. I have the fancy Leica (as you see from this thread) ones - not just this 28-50, and also fancy Voigtlander ones. And see zero difference between them and the Fotodiox.
If the Fotodiox one you get does not seem to work properly, just exchange for another. Before Leica fan-boiz cry out "see, pay more for the real thing!", I have had the same thing happen with Leica and Voigtlander adapters.

One brand I do NOT recommend is Metabones. The one I had scratched my camera's lens mount because it had sharp burred edges. I did not notice until post-impact.

madNbad said:

Check the link, apparently it was to give the most view when using a 28 on an M3.

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The most view on an M3 is the 50mm frame. So it is saying for a 28m lens, use the 50mm frame lines? Which frankly is really dumb - even for back then.

The adapter says M2 - 50, M3 - 28-50.

So if you are using an M2 it only brings up 50mm frame lines. Which is ok because that is what it says on the adapter - M2-50. Even though the M2 offers a wider 35mm set.
So what we are saying is it is purely a 50mm adapter for M2 cameras.

Where this logic falls apart is the M3 28-50 bit. It again only brings up the 50mm lines - which is the widest available on the M3. But the suggestion is that it works for a 28mm lens. In use only in the fact that it can mount a 28m ltm lens, but if that is the low bar of entry, it can mount any ltm lens. And on any camera that DOES have a 28mm frame line set, it STILL only brings up the 50mm set.

So, basically a Leica M2 50, M3 28-50 is purely a 50mm LTM adapter. Nothing else. And I have no idea why Leica entertained the fact that it could be used for a 28mm lens on anything!

I guess this heads up too others is do NOT buy this adapter if you want it to bring up 28mm frame lines!

If the crowd at LUF can't figure it out, then it really is a mystery.

Huss said:

I do now. I highly recommend the Fotodiox ones. I have the fancy Leica (as you see from this thread) ones - not just this 28-50, and also fancy Voigtlander ones. And see zero difference between them and the Fotodiox.
If the Fotodiox one you get does not seem to work properly, just exchange for another. Before Leica fan-boiz cry out "see, pay more for the real thing!", I have had the same thing happen with Leica and Voigtlander adapters.

One brand I do NOT recommend is Metabones. The one I had scratched my camera's lens mount because it had sharp burred edges. I did not notice until post-impact.

Click to expand...

Thanks Huss. I have a couple of the Leica ones and a Voightlander but of course not one for a 90... I'll probably hit it with some emory paper before I try to use it. Ain't rocket physics. As long as they are tight and the right thickness they are fine. Leica, Voigtlander, whoever.

I think the twisted logic goes something like this: Let's say you have an M2, an M3, the set of 3 LTM adapters and some lenses - a 50mm, a 90mm and a 28mm. For the 90mm, your choice is clear - you want the ISBOO adapter that brings up the correct 90m frameline on both cameras:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/ISBOO

A user with a more modern Leica like the M6 would also use the ISBOO with the 28mm lens, because it brings up the correct 28mm framelines (though it's not marked on the adapter, which pre-dates 28mm framelines). But you just have the older cameras, so showing the 28mm framelines isn't an option. So which of the three adapters do you choose? Really, you could use any, because you'll presumably be framing with an accessory viewfinder. But of course you'll also be using the rangefinder, which could make some choices more distracting than others, because some adapters will bring up extra, useless framelines. Using the ISBOO on the M2 or M3 only brings up the 90mm frameline, which makes no particular sense. So what does an M3 user do? Leica's engraving suggests the IRZOO:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/IRZOO

This is marked 'M2 50 M3 28-50'. It is of course the right adapter for the 50mm lens on either camera, but 'M3 28-50' suggests Leica also thought it was the best adapter for the 28mm lens on the M3. Why is this? Remember that the 50mm framelines are always displayed on the M3; you can't get rid of them with any adapter. Using the IRZOO at least doesn't add any more framelines to distract you when using the rangefinder, and you are seeing the widest available framelines. How about using that 28mm lens on the M2? You could stick with the IRZOO, giving you the same single 50mm framelines. But Leica's engraving suggests you use the third adapter, ISOOZ:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/ISOOZ

This is marked 'M2 21-35 M3 135'. With the 28mm lens it will bring up the 35mm framelines (on the M2, there are no fixed framelines). Leica presumably thought this was less bad than showing the 50mm or 90mm framelines (35mm is closer to 28mm, after all, and you are again seeing the widest available framelines). My guess is that Leica recommended the 'least worst' option for each lens that was not supported by the framelines on each camera, which for the wideangles is the widest available set of framelines. Don't ask why there are no engraved recommendations for using the 135mm on the M2! (Perhaps they just thought that wasn't a recommended combination; you could use an accessory finder with the M2, but you'd be stuck with the lower magnification finder for focusing).

The M3/M2 did not have 28mm framelines. But if you were upgrading your LTM outfit in the '50's to the M3/M2 you might have a 28mm lens and VF. So the 28/50 adapter worked with your lens without bring up your 90mm or 135mm framelines. makes sense to me.

beemermark said:

The M3/M2 did not have 28mm framelines. But if you were upgrading your LTM outfit in the '50's to the M3/M2 you might have a 28mm lens and VF. So the 28/50 adapter worked with your lens without bring up your 90mm or 135mm framelines. makes sense to me.

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I thought you just said you might have a 28mm lens and VF...

Does it not just mean any lens between 28mm and 50mm on an m3 will only show the 50mm frame lines

Whereas on a m2 you can only use a 50mm with it. Anything wider and you need something to pull up 35mm framelines

Or is that garbage?

Craig75 said:

Does it not just mean any lens between 28mm and 50mm on an m3 will only show the 50mm frame lines

Whereas on a m2 you can only use a 50mm with it. Anything wider and you need something to pull up 35mm framelines

Or is that garbage?

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Well it is the adapter that determines which frame lines are shown. It does not matter which lens you screw onto the adapter. This adapter only pulls up the 50mm frame lines on anything you mount it on.
So it should just say M2 50, M3 50.
Saying 28-50 - well might as well list every LTM lens available there because it will work exactly the same way - only pulls up 50!

The final take-away for anyone adapter shopping for a 28mm lens is do NOT buy this one! And honestly just don't waste your money on these really expensive, old adapters. Just get a Fotodiox one.

Huss said:

Well it is the adapter that determines which frame lines are shown. It does not matter which lens you screw onto the adapter. This adapter only pulls up the 50mm frame lines on anything you mount it on.
So it should just say M2 50, M3 50.
Saying 28-50 - well might as well list every LTM lens available there because it will work exactly the same way - only pulls up 50!

The final take-away for anyone adapter shopping for a 28mm lens is do NOT buy this one! And honestly just don't waste your money on these really expensive, old adapters. Just get a Fotodiox one.

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Well for anything between 28 and 50mm on an m3 use this adapter.

For 50mm on an m2 use this adapter

For anything between 21 and 35mm on an m2 use the 21 to 35 adapter to bring up the 35mm framelines.

I.know what you mean. Oh great I have a 28mm lens and 50mm framelines on an m3 - that's bugger all use. I still need an external viewfinder. Or I have a 21mm on m2 and 35mm framelines ... excellent...

but maybe in the brave new dawn of M cameras customers were...

OK I have a 35mm ltm lens for my m3 which adapter? and you'd use the 28 to 50.

OK I have a 35mm ltm for my m2 which adapter? and you would use the 21 to 35

(And redcurtain managed to say what I was trying to say in 2 lines instead of my 2 posts and 1000 words)

For the 28 summaron f5.6 or Hektar f6.3

The m3 had frame lines for 50 90 135
You would want to use the adapter that brought up the 50 frame line so the view is uncluttered as possible -don’t want to see 90 or 135 frames so marked 28 50 m3
On m2 you would use 35/135 adapter so again not look at 50 or 90 frame line so marked 50 m2

I was looking for something completely different and came across this:



Takes care of the frameline problem!

Redcurtain said:

For the 28 summaron f5.6 or Hektar f6.3

The m3 had frame lines for 50 90 135
You would want to use the adapter that brought up the 50 frame line so the view is uncluttered as possible -don’t want to see 90 or 135 frames so marked 28 50 m3
..

Click to expand...

That doesn't make any sense as you will have to use an external cold shoe mounted 28mm optical finder if you are using a 28mm lens on an M3. If you want to have any idea what you are framing.
Because, beating the dead horse, the widest the M3 shows in camera is 50.

madNbad said:

I was looking for something completely different and came across this:

View attachment 291971

Takes care of the frameline problem!

Click to expand...

The MdA is highly recommended! Based on the M4 - The Md is based on the M2, the Md2 is based on the M4-2.

Never need to calibrate the RF!

I love using mine with the Wtulens 17mm

I think that 28-50 writing is in the category of "Contents may be hot" on coffee lids. For those who have too many adapters and need a 50 but are not sure whether the 50 adapter or the 28-50 should go on their 28mm and 50mm lenses. You don't want to be mixing those up I suppose...

What it comes down to for an M2 or M3 user with a lens that isn't supported by the camera's framelines is: If you don't care what framelines are shown (none of them will be right), use any adapter. If you'd prefer the least cluttered view with the widest available framelines when using the rangefinder for focusing, use what the engravings on the adapter recommend for your camera.

Users with later cameras like the M6 that have the full set of frameline pairs should use the IRZOO for 50/75, the ISBOO for 28/90, and the ISOOZ for 35/135. The old M2 and M3-specific engravings no longer apply.

I've got a different take on this. I think the adapter Huss is referring to is designed to use the 28mm as well as 50mm LTM lenses on an M2 or M3. If, like myself, you have a Nikkor 2.8cm LTM lens and want to use it on an M2 or M3, with an external 28mm finder, you need that adapter. Because the Nikkor (in 2.8cm) needs that lower part of the flange relief, or else you can never release the infinity lock. So labeling the adapter 28mm for an M2 or M3 is telling you this is the adapter if you want to use for a 28mm (or 2.8cm) LTM lens on your M2 or M3. It has nothing to do with bringing up frame lines, which obviously did not exist on the M2 and M3. It's just telling you that this adapter was designed to mate up with any 28mm (or 2.8cm) LTM lens that was around at that time.

Best,
-Tim

Just bought this 28-90 adapter off ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201685521654

$17, works perfectly, got it in 3 days. Infinity focus and the rest are dead on. Just as good as my gen-u-whine Leica and Voigtlander adapters.