Can PXP be dated from the backing paper?

Jesper · Jul 16, 2020

A friend of my wife´s appeared the other day with a Hasselblad 500C/M that her mother had been left and wondered if I could value it. In the A12 back was an exposed roll of Kodak Plus-X that we developed only to find it badly damaged by time and a severe light leak. The only image that could be seen was an out of focus shot of a woman in what appeared to be an 80’s hairdo and sweater (there was some discussion if it was a woman or a man but we settled on woman by two votes to one).

It would be interesting if the film could be, not dated, but placed in a period of time and I wonder if Kodak changed the graphic style on the backing paper of Plus-X at any point between -78 (when the A12 back was produced) and 2011 when production of Plus-X ceased and if the backing paper can be attributed to a specific period. It’s not really important but just out of curiosity.

Donald Qualls · Jul 16, 2020

Likely that the lot number in the edge markings would help here, too, if it's legible through the age fog and light leaks.

Jesper · Jul 16, 2020

Sorry, nothing visible along the edges. The only reason why there is something at all was that that part had been protected by the piece of adhesive at the start of the film.

Donald Qualls · Jul 16, 2020

Worth asking, anyway. It's new enough to have the ISO speed marking instead of ASA (or ASA and DIN separately), but I don't recall when Kodak made that change -- whether it was in the 1980s or 1990s. Wikipedia says ISO film ratings started in 1974, so that's not much of a limit.

MattKing · Jul 16, 2020

Plus X Pan Professional was discontinued in 2002 and replaced with KODAK PROFESSIONAL PLUS-X 125 Film.
https://125px.com/docs/film/kodak/f8-Plus-X_Pan.pdf
My 1970 Kodak Darkroom Dataguide lists 120 Plus X Pan Professional.
My ~~1949~~ 1940 Kodak Reference Handbook lists no Plus X Pan Professional or any other version of Plus X in 120 (roll film) sizes - just panchromatic Plus X in 135 and Bantam (828).
With a 1940 era ASA of 200 Daylight, 125 Tungsten!

Donald Qualls · Jul 16, 2020

Down to a 28 year span! After 1974 to have ISO speed marking, before 2002 when the labeling was changed and/or a new version of the film offered.

Jesper · Jul 16, 2020

Thanks, then the image was taken after 1978 (when the A12 back was made) and probably before 2002.

cmacd123 · Jul 16, 2020

does anyone know when Kodak started to use bar codes on the backing paper? that would narrow it down further. I recall Plus-x having Purple ink on the ends of the rolls.

Donald Qualls · Jul 17, 2020

Barcodes (UPC) were introduced for retail products in 1974, and started to become ubiquitous (and used for other things besides UPC numbers) by the late 1970s. So probably not much help, unless Kodak was quite late adopting them.

MattKing · Jul 17, 2020

The KP87013 code on the backing paper doesn't yield any results from various internet searches, so I think we can assume that it predates the Web!

Donald Qualls · Jul 17, 2020

I think we already knew that...

Jesper · Jul 17, 2020

Thanks for all your input. It was a long shot and it was just out of curiosity. Maybe the hairdo and the sweater are the best clues and the film was exposed in the 80's or perhaps early 90's.

A pity for a good camera to lay dormant for so long. One body, two lenses and two backs all in desperate need of CLA to get back to working order.

cmacd123 · Jul 17, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Barcodes (UPC) were introduced for retail products in 1974, and started to become ubiquitous (and used for other things besides UPC numbers) by the late 1970s. So probably not much help, unless Kodak was quite late adopting them.

Yes, but... UPC codes appered on packages long before manufacturers started using them in Production. the bar code on the backing paper shown is pat of Kodaks production system, to check that the Backing paper is the same as the operator of the machine thinks she is packaging. you will note it is not a UPC but only a couple of digits. Did anyone notice when Kodak started doing that? it would have been at a time when they replaced their packing machinery. Would likely when the edge printing changed to dot matrix from the former analogue system.

MattKing · Jul 17, 2020

Why don't you reach out to Bob Shanebrook (laser here on Photrio) - the author of Making Kodak film? His posts here indicate he was involved when Verichrome Pan and Plus X were both in production - apparently using the same emulsion!

reddesert · Jul 17, 2020

I have a couple of rolls of exposed 120 film in my to-be-developed-someday bag that have very similar printing on the paper (the little bit that is visible). They are TMX and TMY, not Plus-X, but the printing and color on the TMX roll especially are very similar to this Plus-X paper. My note on the outside of the rolls says they were exposed in 1997 (don't ask why I haven't developed them yet), and they would have been new stock then.

I'm sure that film isn't from the 1970s. Yes, some bar codes existed then, but the style of packaging and printing looks later. In fact, if you look at these pages on the history of the Kodak logo,
https://www.designhill.com/design-blog/history-of-evolution-of-the-kodak-logo/
https://1000logos.net/kodak-logo/
Kodak didn't adopt the sans-serif typeface used for the main "Kodak" logo (above "remove band entirely") until 1984 or 1987, so that film is from 1984 or later.
Edit: found another website that says they adopted the typeface in 1984 before changing the "red-and-yellow K" logo, so revised it from 1987 to 1984 or later.

37th Exposure · Jul 18, 2020

I started shooting 120 for the first time in 1989 and the Kodak rolls I remember had predominantly green or purple backing paper at the end on the “Exposed” part. About 1991 or so they switched to the backing paper the OP has shown if I remember correctly. I bet if you Google Kodak 120 or something similar and look at the “images” on the hit list you can find examples.

Lachlan Young · Jul 18, 2020

MattKing said:
Why don't you reach out to Bob Shanebrook (laser here on Photrio) - the author of Making Kodak film? His posts here indicate he was involved when Verichrome Pan and Plus X were both in production - apparently using the same emulsion!

Verichrome Pan and 135 PX shared emulsions - 120/ 220 PXP and sheet PXT were significantly different.

MattKing · Jul 18, 2020

Lachlan Young said:
Verichrome Pan and 135 PX shared emulsions - 120/ 220 PXP and sheet PXT were significantly different.

I expect that Verichrome Pan 620 and Plus X 120 also shared emulsions.

Can PXP be dated from the backing paper?

Jesper

Attachments

Donald Qualls

Jesper

Donald Qualls

MattKing

Moderator

Donald Qualls

Jesper

cmacd123

Donald Qualls

MattKing

Moderator

Donald Qualls

Jesper

cmacd123

MattKing

Moderator

reddesert

37th Exposure

Lachlan Young

MattKing

Moderator

Can PXP be dated from the backing paper?

Attachments

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency