Can I Fix My Konica III....Or Am I Crazy?

ReginaldSMith · May 20, 2018

...or stupid?

I have a new to me Konica III and although it generally looks lovely, the shutter speed selector however sticks and will not select 500. I've watched a few videos on removing lenses and shutters, but none specific to this model. I have used small tools and such on watches and other small equipment, but I have never removed a camera lens. I'm willing to buy the spanners and such.

Ok, all that said, on a scale of 1 to 10, how hard is it to get this assembly apart and back together? Tips? Comments? Warnings? LOL

bernard_L · May 20, 2018

Ask yourself: how often do you use the 500 shutter speed? Oh, and exposing Tri-X strictly by the sunny 16 rule is not an argument: 400TX will be quite happy with a modest 1-stop over-exposure. And, the 500 speed is probably closer to 300.

All this said, and assuming (from your post) that everything else is nice and smooth, would you jeopardize your camera trying to fix that one shutter speed? I would not. Advice given.

ReginaldSMith · May 20, 2018

Certainly a valid point, Bernard. I somewhat agree. I am concerned however that the sticking is a sign of other trouble, and will only get worse. Gooid point though.

Pentode · May 20, 2018

You obviously have experience using small tools but you have none repairing cameras and no specific instructions for addressing this particular problem.

Only you know how much you have invested in this camera, financially and emotionally, so only you can decide if it’s worth the risk of turning a mostly working camera into a doorstop. If it were me and I liked the camera a lot I would buy a handful of broken cameras at flea markets for peanuts and spend some time tinkering inside them first. That’s just me.

I’m all for DIY repair but I wouldn’t practice on a camera I cared about and it seems like that’s what you’re proposing.

MattKing · May 20, 2018

A Konica III is relatively rare, and fairly special.
If you were proposing that you try out your repair skills on something more easily replaced, I might agree.
But not that camera.
If you like the camera, invest in it by having a competent repair tech bring it up to full speed.
If it turns our that you decide not to keep the camera, you will most likely be able to recoup all or at least part of the service cost when you re-sell it.

ReginaldSMith · May 20, 2018

All good advice.... Which is why I asked. I think I will go the professional repair route, unless I was to find a YouTube that is directly about this camera. Thanks everyone!

Helios 1984 · May 20, 2018

ReginaldSMith said:
...or stupid?

I have a new to me Konica III and although it generally looks lovely, the shutter speed selector however sticks and will not select 500. I've watched a few videos on removing lenses and shutters, but none specific to this model. I have used small tools and such on watches and other small equipment, but I have never removed a camera lens. I'm willing to buy the spanners and such.

Ok, all that said, on a scale of 1 to 10, how hard is it to get this assembly apart and back together? Tips? Comments? Warnings? LOL

Does the selector jam before getting to 1/500 or does 1/500 doesn't work at all when selected?

ReginaldSMith · May 20, 2018

Helios 1984 said:
Does the selector jam before getting to 1/500 or does 1/500 doesn't work at all when selected?

The selector jams BEFORE it will go to 500.

shutterfinger · May 20, 2018

YES.
Leaf shutters use a booster spring to achieve speeds higher than 1/100 - 1/125. If the shutter is cocked you will not be able to set the speed higher than 1/250.
Position the camera so that you can see the shutter blades and a clock/watch with a sweep second hand. Set the aperture to f2.8 or its widest setting. Set the speed to 1 second, cock the shutter, release the shutter just as the second hand reaches a second mark. Observe that the shutter opens fully and closes just as the second hand reaches the next second mark, tolerance is the width of the second hand on most clocks either side of the second mark. Set the shutter speed to 1/2 second and repeat the cock/trip sequence. The shutter should open and close just as the second hand reaches the mid point between the starting and next second mark, tolerance is 1/2 of the width of the second hand. Now operate the shutter at the next speed up noting whether it gets faster until the upper limit is reached then back down noting that the speeds get slower.
http://www.cameramanuals.org/konica/konica_iii.pdf
The camera uses a Seiko shutter. There is not much information on Seiko shutters available on the web.

Now, does your shutter need servicing?

macfred · May 20, 2018

I'm not quite sure, but ...
Does your Konica III has the EV-coupling (an interlock between the shutter speed and aperture rings) ?
Mine (Hexanon 1:2 f=48mm - Konirapid-MFX shutter) does not.
There are several models of the Konica III (III, IIIa; IIIM) out there, which have the EV-coupling.
I heard -several times already- about a problem with the 1/500th - here's a link to a flickr photographer, who describes this ''fatal flaw'' on his IIIa (paragraph 8+9 - ''The fatal flaw …'' ) :
https://www.flickr.com/photos/vox/2111424411
Maybe I'm wrong ...

GRHazelton · May 20, 2018

Mike Butkus has a pdf of the instruction manual for the Konica IIIa here: http://www.cameramanuals.org/konica/konica_iiia_iiim.pdf If you go to page 48 you will note that the 1/500 sec speed must be set BEFORE the shutter is cocked. I have a IIIa and it is a lovely camera, probably good as a self-defense weapon due to its weight and solidity, BUT I must remember about the 1/500 oddity. BTW, Mike's web site is a treasure. We who use it should send him a few dollars so he can keep up the good work.

ReginaldSMith · May 20, 2018

1. GRH- - I always use Butkus, and I DID buy the right manual for the Konica III, not IIIA. He's a great service!
2. Shutterfinger.......I will see if I can accomplish that measurement.

ReginaldSMith · May 20, 2018

shutterfinger said:
YES.
Leaf shutters use a booster spring to achieve speeds higher than 1/100 - 1/125. If the shutter is cocked you will not be able to set the speed higher than 1/250.
Position the camera so that you can see the shutter blades and a clock/watch with a sweep second hand. Set the aperture to f2.8 or its widest setting. Set the speed to 1 second, cock the shutter, release the shutter just as the second hand reaches a second mark. Observe that the shutter opens fully and closes just as the second hand reaches the next second mark, tolerance is the width of the second hand on most clocks either side of the second mark. Set the shutter speed to 1/2 second and repeat the cock/trip sequence. The shutter should open and close just as the second hand reaches the mid point between the starting and next second mark, tolerance is 1/2 of the width of the second hand. Now operate the shutter at the next speed up noting whether it gets faster until the upper limit is reached then back down noting that the speeds get slower.
http://www.cameramanuals.org/konica/konica_iii.pdf
The camera uses a Seiko shutter. There is not much information on Seiko shutters available on the web.

Now, does your shutter need servicing?

Ok, first off, the 500 CAN be selected BEFORE cocking. So, I was just doing that wrong. Yippee! At least that is good news. The bad news is that the shutter speeds are slow. Here is what I measured.
Set to 1 - about 2 sec by my sweep hand
Set to 2 - about 1 sec by my sweep hand
Each successive selection was shorter than the previous, but of course I couldn't measure it. It did "feel" like the speed from 60 on up were somewhat close. At least they were all proportionally faster as I went up the dial. And yes, 500 did work!

BTW, there is no EV coupling (that I can detect). On the underside of the lens there is a small pointed brass lever which slides freely between f/16 and f/2 no matter what the speed is.

That's what I can report so far.

Helios 1984 · May 20, 2018

ReginaldSMith said:
Ok, first off, the 500 CAN be selected BEFORE cocking. So, I was just doing that wrong. Yippee! At least that is good news. The bad news is that the shutter speeds are slow. Here is what I measured.
Set to 1 - about 2 sec by my sweep hand
Set to 2 - about 1 sec by my sweep hand
Each successive selection was shorter than the previous, but of course I couldn't measure it. It did "feel" like the speed from 60 on up were somewhat close. At least they were all proportionally faster as I went up the dial. And yes, 500 did work!

BTW, there is no EV coupling (that I can detect). On the underside of the lens there is a small pointed brass lever which slides freely between f/16 and f/2 no matter what the speed is.

That's what I can report so far.

Good, at least you can work around speeds which arent within parameter. If you eventually feel the need for a CLAC, contact Carol Miller at Flutot Camera, she works on Seikosha leaf shutters(She told me so yesterday).

shutterfinger · May 20, 2018

ReginaldSMith said:
Set to 1 - about 2 sec by my sweep hand
Set to 2 - about 1 sec by my sweep hand
Each successive selection was shorter than the previous, but of course I couldn't measure it. It did "feel" like the speed from 60 on up were somewhat close.

1 stop slow on the low end, fast end may be also.
All speeds from 1 second to 1/125 are controlled by the main cocking spring and the delay timing with the delay the most critical, faster speeds are booster spring controlled.
All parts come out the front of the shutter except for the rear lens element and in the case of a rangefinder possibly the release and metering linkages.
Try to source a service manual for the camera before attempting to service the shutter yourself or removing the shutter to send it out for servicing.

Theo Sulphate · May 20, 2018

With leaf shutters I got into the habit of selecting the shutter speed before cocking the shutter (or winding the film if that's part of the cocking operation). The reason was because, if I set the speed after cocking, I didn't like hearing the sound of the gear mechanism being adjusted.

Helios 1984 · May 20, 2018

GRHazelton said:
Mike Butkus has a pdf of the instruction manual for the Konica IIIa here: http://www.cameramanuals.org/konica/konica_iiia_iiim.pdf If you go to page 48 you will note that the 1/500 sec speed must be set BEFORE the shutter is cocked. I have a IIIa and it is a lovely camera, probably good as a self-defense weapon due to its weight and solidity, BUT I must remember about the 1/500 oddity. BTW, Mike's web site is a treasure. We who use it should send him a few dollars so he can keep up the good work.

And that is why everyone should always read the manual for their cameras, there's more in them than just images of how to load a roll and how to install a strap.

ReginaldSMith · May 21, 2018

Helios 1984 said:
Good, at least you can work around speeds which arent within parameter. If you eventually feel the need for a CLAC, contact Carol Miller at Flutot Camera, she works on Seikosha leaf shutters(She told me so yesterday).

FYI- - - -

I just heard back from Carol Miller via Email, and she is no longer working on cameras as she is caregiving for her husband and finds almost no time to work. She was gracious and gave me a whole list of other repair resources.

Helios 1984 · May 21, 2018

ReginaldSMith said:
FYI- - - -

I just heard back from Carol Miller via Email, and she is no longer working on cameras as she is caregiving for her husband and finds almost no time to work. She was gracious and gave me a whole list of other repair resources.

I was unaware that she worked on cameras, I was planning to send only the shutter unit of my 35-L as I did most of the maintenance on the rest of the camera.

Pentode · May 21, 2018

ReginaldSMith said:
The bad news is that the shutter speeds are slow.

Now that you know the shutter’s not damaged (great news!), here’s something you could try before sending it out.

Set the shutter to a middle speed. Place one drop (only one!) of naphtha (lighter fluid) on the leaf shutter. Capillary action will draw the naphtha into the works. Now cycle the shutter about 25 times. The naphtha will loosen up whatever gunk may have stiffened up the works while the camera sat for years. Now work your way through all the shutter speeds, cycling between 25 and 50 times.

Often (not always) this procedure will loosen dried lubricants and get a leaf shutter ticking again. It may not work, but it won’t harm anything to try.

albada · May 21, 2018

Pentode said:
Now that you know the shutter’s not damaged (great news!), here’s something you could try before sending it out.
Set the shutter to a middle speed. Place one drop (only one!) of naphtha (lighter fluid) on the leaf shutter. Capillary action will draw the naphtha into the works. Now cycle the shutter about 25 times. The naphtha will loosen up whatever gunk may have stiffened up the works while the camera sat for years. Now work your way through all the shutter speeds, cycling between 25 and 50 times.
Often (not always) this procedure will loosen dried lubricants and get a leaf shutter ticking again. It may not work, but it won’t harm anything to try.

The above procedure will move oil around on the blades, which you might not want. Oil on the tips of the blades slow them down, but oil on the pivots is harmless. Here's a test to see whether there's oil on the tips:
1. Set the F-stop to f/2 (wide open).
2. Cock the shutter, and fire it, and KEEP THE SHUTTER BUTTON PRESSED DOWN.
3. Examine the shutter at about the 4:00 position (viewed from the front), and you'll see a little lever protruding. That is the actual shutter-release, and pressing the shutter button causes this little lever to protrude. Hold it out with your finger, and keep holding it out through the next three steps.
4. Release the shutter release button.
5. Press the film-advance lever down, and SLOWLY release it.
6. During the slow release, the blades will slowly open, and when partly open, examine the tips to see whether there's oil on them.
7. Release the little shutter-release lever on the side of the shutter.
If you saw oil, a cleaning is in order. If you did NOT see oil on the blades, then your speeds will be consistent in both cool and warm weather, and the shutter will not stick closed (a common problem). As you noticed, all the speeds are slow, but if their speeds are consistent, you can compensate for them by reducing exposure by 1/2 to 1 stop.

Mark Overton

ReginaldSMith · May 22, 2018

Mark,
I'll try that and let you know! Thanks.

In the event that CLEANING is warranted, and assuming I am adventurous and good with tools, does anyone know the procedure (even roughly) for taking the shutter out? I've watched some videos regarding other lenses, and it doesn't seem like much magic. Remove the front rings and retainers, unscrew the front element, and the shutter comes out. I probably won't tackle it, but I am such a DIY guy I just might not be able to stop myself.

Helios 1984 · May 22, 2018

ReginaldSMith said:
Mark,
I'll try that and let you know! Thanks.

In the event that CLEANING is warranted, and assuming I am adventurous and good with tools, does anyone know the procedure (even roughly) for taking the shutter out? I've watched some videos regarding other lenses, and it doesn't seem like much magic. Remove the front rings and retainers, unscrew the front element, and the shutter comes out. I probably won't tackle it, but I am such a DIY guy I just might not be able to stop myself.

Hi Reg,
The whole shutter-lens come off as one unit, you just have to unscrew the retainer ring from inside the camera.
You can see the procedure in the following video ---> Konica III Repair Part 1 (Source: Daito Camera).
From there you'll have to remove the rear cover of the shutter which will give you access to the blades.
(Take as many pictures as you can of every single steps so you can easily backtrack)
Here's how is look inside
(Seikosha-MXL)

shutterfinger · May 22, 2018

The shutter blades lay on in a given order at a specified starting point with some blades different than the others. From the picture in post 23 they lay in position then the case sits down over the main plate. Loads of fun.

ReginaldSMith · May 22, 2018

Helios,
Thanks for the pix and video. I'm studying it! BTW., the lens in your picture is not EXACTLY what I have, right? It's a similar lens? Again thanks to all for good tips. I"m scouting out a tool kit.

Can I Fix My Konica III....Or Am I Crazy?

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