can I buy just stop-bath indicator dye?

[BetterSense]

I use vinegar for stop bath because I steal it from laundry supplies and thus never run out.

What is the correct dilution for vinegar stop bath?

Can I buy just dye so I can put a couple drops in and have indicator stop bath?

 

[Gerald C Koch]

You could. It is called bromcresol purple. It's fairly expensive. But acetic acid has its own built in indicator. Its smell. If your stop bath still smells of vinegar then it is still good. Why waste money on something else. BTW, they do make indicators for color blind chemists. These are compounds which emit an odor when the end-point of a titration is reached.

Indicator stop bath is really just a gimmick so they can be sell something more expensive than acetic acid.

Did a price quote $65 for 10 grams.

 

[Sirius Glass]

18 pages of this. I don't get it. But then I always did things the Kodak way, and NEVER had any problems. They say use stop bath, so I use it. There's just not a single valid argument against it. I don't even see why it's up for question.

I see a water stop bath as analogous to trying to stop at the stop sign when the brakes are ineffective (foot dragging is not the answer); or trying to stop when landing on an aircraft carrier after your tailhook misses the arrest system; or stopping a commercial jetliner after touchdown with malfunctioning thrust reversers. And, OMG!, how does one know the dev time to enter into records.

Kodak has recommended a stop bath from day 1.

See attached from a very very early Kodak manual on processing B&W.

I use a stop bath - it is cheap insurance. If I'm going to deviate from the correct process, it's going to be somewhere else, and for a noticeable effect, fun, or experimentation.

I believe I'll hide this thread. The idea of not using stop bath is.... (what's a word for ridiculous that is not derogatory or insulting?)

It is just that stop bath with indicators is just so damned expensive that some can only afford to use water instead.

 

[bdial]

A good dilution for most grocery store vinegar is 1 to 1.
The nice thing about vinegar is that you don't need to pay for shipping water. I've been curious about what dye to use and how much too. I go by smell and how much I've used it.

 

[BetterSense]

I actually go by the feel and I probably use about 1 part vinegar to 2 or 3 parts water for a short session and add more if I need to. I was thinking maybe the dye was cheap like food coloring.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

BetterSense, if it is free, why pay for the indicator dye? A lot of people would argue that the stop bath isn't very effective even before the dye tells you so. Since yours is free, just mix new (or just add more vinegar) after a preset number of prints.

I use Citric Acid for stop bath and it works fine. I get it at the health food store in bulk for about $9 a pound, but that makes a looooot of stop bath.

 

[BetterSense]

Is citric acid a powder? How do you mix it up i.e. how many grams per liter?

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Citric acid is a crystalline powder. While acetic acid is considered a weak acid citric is a moderately strong one. As such it will remove rust from iron. As a stopbath use a 1% solution. As with all stopbaths it is best not to save them between sessions.

 

[Xmas]

Citric acid is a crystalline powder. While acetic acid is considered a weak acid citric is a moderately strong one. As such it will remove rust from iron. As a stopbath use a 1% solution. As with all stopbaths it is best not to save them between sessions.

My photo book said you only need an acid stop for print processing, to avoid stain from developer carry over.

Adox recommended 'plain water' for their Efke film

Just who are these guys Kodak. Do they still make film?

 

[bdial]

Citric acid powder is available in some grocery stores sold as "Sour salt", though last time I tried to find it in the stores around here it wasn't available.

We don't need another acid stop vs water stop thread.
Though it's rarely bad to heed the manufacturer's suggestions.

The gents and ladies at Kodak have been known for their knowledge and abilities for making film for a while. So I understand, they are still at it, and hopefully will be for a long time to come.

 

[removed account4]

$6.49 (@ B&H) makes about 8 gal. That's approx $.20/qt, which is nearly free. How is that expensive? If so, they're in the wrong hobby!

Or photoformulary has it for $13.95 makes about 16 gal, approx. $.22/qt., and they'll ship it to you via UPS Ground.

who has claimed it is too expensive to buy ?

i don't use it, not because it is too expensive
but because i don't wan to deal with additional chemistry.
and it is particularly nasty.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I throw two teaspoons of Citric Acid into an 8x10 tray. I believe the Kodak Citric Acid stop bath formula calls for 15g of Citric Acid, but like a lot of chemistry in photography, it isn't critical and not worth the time to measure. I too do not like the smell of Acetic Acid so I switched to Citric Acid. I only use stop for paper. For film I just use water.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I like using Citric Acid. One tablespoon per litre. My stop bath indicator are my fingers. When it starts feeling slimy, down the drain it goes.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I throw two teaspoons of Citric Acid into an 8x10 tray. I believe the Kodak Citric Acid stop bath formula calls for 15g of Citric Acid, but like a lot of chemistry in photography, it isn't critical and not worth the time to measure. I too do not like the smell of Acetic Acid so I switched to Citric Acid. I only use stop for paper. For film I just use water.

I use citric acid for stop bath for paper because I hate the smell of acetic acid. I use water for stop bath for film because I've heard an acid stop can cause pinholes. Any truth to that? I also use citric acid for clearing baths for alt processes to. It's pretty cheap stuff and non toxic.

 

[removed account4]

Look again at my post #5 in response to Sirius Glass' comment that it is "so damned expensive." In what way do you think it's "particularly nasty."

sorry, silverorO
i can't see #5 because he's on my ignore list.
so your post was out of context
NOW, its not thanks !

when i used to use kodak stop bath ( sorry i put the wrong chem here )
the stench was about as nasty as it gets.
i am not a fan, no matter how inexpensive it is !
and while i could, i won't get gallons of galacial acetic acid
even though it makes the stop bath seem even cheaper ...
the actual price is having to deal with gallons of concentrated acetic acid
in my lab, something i would rather not have to deal with. ( i don't want to deal
with sulfuric acid or boric acid or dmz, or bzt or dichromate either ).
i've been stop-less for 3 decades. i am sure if i get into a bind
i can just get some heinz out of the cabinet and mix some
the smell of caffenol is like expensive perfume compared to stop bath.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Stop bath with indicator does not smell.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Stop bath using only acetic barely smells, and is not dangerous. The vinegar in one's salad dressing is about twice the concentration of the same thing. And one routinely eats that.

(Unless, of course, a proper Italian is available...)

Ken

 

[MattKing]

I use two different indicator stop baths.

For film, I use the Kodak version. It is an acetic acid based stop bath, so it does smell somewhat. The concentrate you buy is quite strong- if you spill it, it can discolour things.

With my Kodak stop bath for film use I prefer to make up a 1+7 stock solution 16 ounces at a time. I use that stock for film - diluted somewhere between 1 + 7 (the manufacturer's recommendation) and 1 + 15 (if I am only going to develop one or two films). I use stop bath for one day/session only, and then discard it.

I use the acetic acid based Kodak stop bath for film because it is more economical, because it can be stored as an intermediate stock solution without things growing in it and because where I develop film, the acetic acid smell isn't a problem.

For printing, I use the Ilford version. It is a citric acid based stop bath, so it does smell much less. The concentrate you buy is quite strong- if you spill it, it can discolour things - but it isn't as strong as the Kodak version.

With my Ilford stop bath for print use I am not able to make up a stock solution - things can grow in diluted citric acid based stop bath. I almost always use stop bath for one day/session only, and then discard it.

I use the citric acid based Ilford stop bath for paper because it smells less. My darkroom ventilation is good, but the room is much smaller and less open then the room I use to develop film. Unfortunately, the Ilford stop bath is less economical than the Kodak version.

And by the way - Sirius was attempting irony when he described stop bath as being "so damned expensive".

 

[removed account4]

And by the way - Sirius was attempting irony when he described stop bath as being "so damned expensive".

yeah, that is kind of funny
cause it is almost as cheap
as photo-flo, which i think
is almost so cheap it should
be illegal.

I used glacial acetic only once when I was just starting out in the late 50s. Never again! That's the kind of thing one only does once. It IS really nasty, especially if you get any on your skin or get a whiff of it ... takes your breath away.

i got the wifi of indicator in the square spouted bottles
and it was pretty bad.
sprint makes one that dilutes 1:0 ( like everything they make )
but it smells like vanilla, and i am hungry enough all the time as it is ...

 

[Athiril]

This changes colour above pH 6.2 instead of 6.8 like bromocresol purple, so in that sense it is 'safer'.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10g-Meth...595558?hash=item3aa5d976e6:g:A9gAAOSwBahVHA1K


You need very very little indicator in a stop bath.

 

[Anon Ymous]

...when i used to use kodak fixer
the stench was about as nasty as it gets.
i am not a fan, no matter how inexpensive it is !
and while i could, i won't get gallons of galacial acetic acid
even though it makes the stop bath seem even cheaper ...

To be fair, the problem with fixers like Kodak F5 isn't acetic acid vapors alone. IIRC, it emits some SO2, which is quite nasty. it's the gas produced when burning sulfur...

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I use vinegar for stop bath because I steal it from laundry supplies and thus never run out.

What is the correct dilution for vinegar stop bath?

Can I buy just dye so I can put a couple drops in and have indicator stop bath?

You want a 2% acid solution

 

[removed account4]

To be fair, the problem with fixers like Kodak F5 isn't acetic acid vapors alone. IIRC, it emits some SO2, which is quite nasty. it's the gas produced when burning sulfur...

hi anon ymous
i misspoke, it wasn't fixer i was talking about but STOP BATH
i only use kodak fixer when i am fixing hand coated stuff cause
it has hardener in it, and only use sprint speed fixer otherwise,
without hardener. i agree fixers are kind of gross too.
i used TF5 because it was the rage, idk 14 years ago ...
it REEKED, i never used it again, and got rid of what i had
and went back to sprint ( doesn't really reek at all ).
sorry for my lack of proofreading ability !

 

[Gerald C Koch]

To be fair, the problem with fixers like Kodak F5 isn't acetic acid vapors alone. IIRC, it emits some SO2, which is quite nasty. it's the gas produced when burning sulfur...

For sensitive individuals exposure to sulfur dioxide can cause bronchial constriction which can be life threatening. Before its use was banned by the FDA vegetable growers would use sodium bisulfite to prevent their lettuce from going brown. The use of various sulfites in wine is also strongly regulated. There have been deaths caused by sulfites present in some wines usually the cheapest ones. Sodium bisulfite is used to sterilize wine making equipment.

 

[charley wilson]

Stop bath containing acetic acid actually stops development, water does not. If you use a sodium
carbonate based film developer (like one of the FX series) "pinholing" might be a problem wih a
strong concentration of acid.

If you like to look at your film before fixing and insist on water "stop" bath, use multiple baths of water
before exposing your developed film to light. Even so, I think you risk fogging the film.

BTW, red cabbage juice can be used as the indicator dye. I think red wine might work too,

Acetic acid in the form of distlled white vinegar is a crapload less expensive than glacial acetic acid for
this application. Dilute to 1% for use.