Can Enlarging Paper be Wetted?

gkardmw · Feb 9, 2021

Hi,

I was recently using some some older Ilford MGIV RC paper that was curling on the sides. I was using a borderless easel and it was a bit of a pain to get it to lay flat. I was wondering if I could wet it with distilled water ahead of exposing it, allowing it to lay flat? Any ever try this? Any downside?

Thanks

Dave

Paul Howell · Feb 9, 2021

I've done that with some very old paper, but I soaked the enite sheet in water, then used a glass plate as an easel, it worked with some success. In the old days to control contrast folks would soak paper in developer, use a glass sheet for easel give the print 50% of the time needed, let the print develop on the glass plate then print for the remaining time and finish in a tray. The first image that come up acts as a mask for the shadow details.

mshchem · Feb 9, 2021

Paul Howell said:
I've done that with some very old paper, but I soaked the enite sheet in water, then used a glass plate as an easel, it worked with some success. In the old days to control contrast folks would soak paper in developer, use a glass sheet for easel give the print 50% of the time needed, let the print develop on the glass plate then print for the remaining time and finish in a tray. The first image that come up acts as a mask for the shadow details.

This is the first I've heard this. Sounds like print out paper. I've dabbled in the darkroom for 50+ years if you count my Instamatic Verichrome period. Might take some fine tuning. Not sure that it will be something I get into, but it's damn interesting.
Best Regards Mike

Paul Howell · Feb 9, 2021

Sorry I cant lay my hands on my reference, it's a Kodak book called something like 8 to Late, which is reference to printing after the kids were put to bed, sometimes in the 40s or early 50s, for beginning to advanced printers. For the life of me I cant recall the name some starting with E effect. I've used on occasion, only works with FB paper, tired with RC, did not work at all, need the paper base to soak up the developer, and as you can imagine messy.

MattKing · Feb 9, 2021

You could humidify it, but I wouldn't wet it.

mshchem · Feb 9, 2021

Paul Howell said:
Sorry I cant lay my hands on my reference, it's a Kodak book called something like 8 to Late, which is reference to printing after the kids were put to bed, sometimes in the 40s or early 50s, for beginning to advanced printers. For the life of me I cant recall the name some starting with E effect. I've used on occasion, only works with FB paper, tired with RC, did not work at all, need the paper base to soak up the developer, and as you can imagine messy.

I've pre-wet fiber paper in water to keep the paper from absorbing chemicals. I will look through some of my old Kodak stuff, I have a few hundred pounds. I picked up a really nice text on printing, published in 1925, there's treasure in there yet to be found. Seems like it would be a mess, but it's intriguing.

gkardmw · Feb 9, 2021

At least I can say based on these responses that it isn't commonly done. I might yet try it with a small sample and see what happens.

Nicholas Lindan · Feb 9, 2021

Paul Howell said:
... to control contrast folks would soak paper in developer, use a glass sheet for easel give the print 50% of the time needed, let the print develop on the glass plate then print for the remaining time and finish in a tray. The first image that come up acts as a mask for the shadow details.

The technique is called 'self masking.' I tried it once as a kid, the results were a dreadful mess. I probably read about it in Pop Photo or some other magazine. But, what the hey, try it. Keep lots of paper towels handy and cover everything with newspaper - dried out developer spills can stain.

"Printing out paper" will self mask, but it is a contact process as the paper is only sensitive to UV. It used to be available commercially and used by portrait photographers as proof prints for the customer to take home and select the ones wanted as enlargements; the proof print would darken to black with exposure to light and the customer would be forced to purchase real prints. I guess most portrait studio customers didn't know to slip the proof into a tray of fixer as soon as they got home.

Self masking effects can be had with some alt-processes.

NB23 · Feb 10, 2021

Not good. You will have a loss of contrast and the image will be very soft.

Don_ih · Feb 10, 2021

Maybe heat could flatten the paper? A warming tray or space heater, maybe? I noticed the curl come out of rc paper when it's blow dried (after enlarging). It might work.

138S · Feb 10, 2021

gkardmw said:
using a borderless easel and it was a bit of a pain to get it to lay flat.

You may use a sheet of mylar or similar plastic to address that, just spray the sheet (both sides) with 3M Re Mount glue, once dried it has a similar effect than the glue in a Post-it Note, so the mylar sheet placed on the easel will flatten the photopaper perfectly. The glue will remain in the sheet once you remove it from the easel. Not a pro way (vacuum easel is) but quite effective for home usage. After usage you may keep the glued sheet between two additional sheets.

juan · Feb 10, 2021

You can pull the back side of the paper over a sharp edge, such as a table edge, to uncurl it. I live in a humid area and have to do this frequently. It does not harm the emulsion.

NB23 · Feb 10, 2021

Vacuum easel or a EZ-EL are good for your needs.

As Don Heisz suggests, a quick blowdry on the back of a rc print will indeed help but might be detrimental for fog issues or with the expried paper’s emulsion performance as heat is the enemy number one.

Doremus Scudder · Feb 10, 2021

It seems to me that the obvious - and easiest - solution is to simply ditch the borderless easel and use one with blades to hold down the paper.

If you want a borderless print, trim it later.

Everything else seems unrealistically and uncomfortably messy...

Doremus

gkardmw · Feb 10, 2021

Yes, but I was just wondering if the way I suggested would be feasible. It seems the paper is curling due to drying out of the gelatin but maybe I am wrong about that. But thanks everyone for your suggestions.

Don_ih · Feb 10, 2021

Doremus Scudder said:
It seems to me that the obvious - and easiest - solution is to simply ditch the borderless easel and use one with blades to hold down the paper.

If you want a borderless print, trim it later.

Everything else seems unrealistically and uncomfortably messy...

Doremus

I was gonna suggest that but thought he had his heart set on borderless.

NB23 said:
might be detrimental for fog issues

Never thought of fog, but that's certainly true. A bit of potassium bromide in the dev might be necessary.

Maris · Feb 10, 2021

[QUOTE="Paul Howell, post: 2381685, member: 3862"..... For the life of me I cant recall the name some starting with E effect.... [/QUOTE]
The technique of exposing developer soaked paper has been referred to as the Emmerman Process. Strange looking results can be obtained by a combination of stepped partial exposures, contrast filter changes, self masking, and local developer diffusion and exhaustion. I've tried it with both RC and FB variable contrast papers and got "pictures" but it's mainly a way of wasting materials and darkroom time.

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