Can anyone remember 935?

The thread about 20 exposure rolls reminded me of another extinct 35mm format, the 36 exposure 'refill'. This was a precut 36 exposure length in a light proof canister. It was already trimmed at both ends - a normal leader at one end and a narrowed section at the other which fitted into the clip of a reloadable cassette spool. I can recall Ilford making these refills which were designated '935' as distinct from the normal '135'. As a schoolboy in the 1960's I couldn't afford a daylight loader bt I saved valuable pennies by buying refills. Does anyone know when these disappeared or whether they were also marketed by other manufacturers?

Bill

Like you I bought a few of the Ilford refills, then I started buying 100ft rolls of ex government FP3 and even an HP3 from Harringey Photographic Supplies, Martin Reed od Silverprint later worked for them and the owners son Roy runs RK Photographic. I also used A.W. Young. I must have bought a bulk loader from them as well.

Ian

I'm more than old enough to remember......but I have never heard of them. They must have been a UK only thing.

Actually I have a Panatomic-X instruction sheet somewhere, that came with a 100-foot roll of 35mm, that describes that variation too. I don't think it had the narrowed butt end for clipping into a spool, but it had the leader tongues precut. I've kind of been scrounging around for that sheet so I can scan it and post it with all the others I've been doing, but I haven't succeeded in finding it yet.

Duncan

I've used them back when I was a rank novice back in the 70's. Bought it at a store in Little Rock Arkansas and it was Kodak film if I recall right.

I remember them but I never used them.

Interesting.
The Nikon F's had a cassette (not the 250 shot cassette), could you use those?

There were a number of cameras that took reloadable cassettes, Leitz and other companies made them, you could run from one to another with an Exacta so no rewinding just use the film slitter.

I think the cost of bulk loaders fell substantially by the late 1960's/early 70's and there was so much surplus 35mm bulk film available in the UK cheap that the 935 reloads were not so economic. If I had to reload a cassette then using bulk film made even more sense, I found some of my 1969/70 Amateur Photography magazines last week (only kept a few) and bulk film was so cheap back then 40s (£2) per 100ft.

Ian

Kodak offered 27.5ft bulk rolls that would make 5 36 exp. rolls, the leader tongues were pre-cut.

Nikon made bulk load cassettes: AM-1 for the F2 and ?? for the F. The cassettes had inner and outer shells - the inner shell rotated to make a light trap. The camera back latch rotated the inner shell so the film could exit the cassette freely. There was no felt light trap and the cassettes were 'infinitely re-usable'. Another good reason to buy an F2...

I used these daylight reloadable films in the late 60s and I am almost certain that they were Adox as that was the brand I used most at that time. I seem to recall that one company (and again I think it was Adox) used a black plastic cassette with a screw off end-cap similar to the purpose made reloadables that are around today for their normal factory loaded films while all the others used metal with pop-off endcaps -all 35mm cassettes were reloadable in those days but the plastic ones were the easiest to use.
OzJohn

You know, I saw a photo on Flickr of some old Ilford film (like FP3 or the old HP5) and it said 36 exposure refill. It didn't make any sense at the time to me, because I wasn't sure on how they could make a 36 exposure refill, so I assumed that that might have just been how they sold it and it was a normal roll.

Nicholas Lindan said:

Kodak offered 27.5ft bulk rolls that would make 5 36 exp. rolls, the leader tongues were pre-cut.

Nikon made bulk load cassettes: AM-1 for the F2 and ?? for the F. The cassettes had inner and outer shells - the inner shell rotated to make a light trap. The camera back latch rotated the inner shell so the film could exit the cassette freely. There was no felt light trap and the cassettes were 'infinitely re-usable'. Another good reason to buy an F2...

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Talking of bulk-loading cassettes, of course Leica, being the original 35mm still camera, had its own bulk loading cassettes back in the 1920s because that was the only way to load 35mm film then. A little bit later, Zeiss Ikon made a bulk loading cassette for their Contax camera which is similar to your description of the Nikon cassette. This design carried through to the FSU Kiev range. By that time the cassette we now know as standard was in existence, so the Contax/Kiev bodies were built to take either type. I have a few of the Kiev cassettes and, although there are some ingenious features in their design and operation, they are a right royal pain to open and load.

Didn't someone, Ilford maybe, make 72 exposure 35mm cassettes?

Since my earlier post I've tracked down a couple of photo directories from the 60s and confirmed that in 1961 Adox did make daylight refills in KB14 (20ASA), KB17 (40ASA) and KB21 (100ASA). Ilford also made them in FP3(125ASA), HP3 (400ASA) and HPS (800ASA!) - the HPS was said to offer extreme speed for press and portraits - I've never heard of HPS but I'll bet it had amazing grain structure and apart from the more recent fast TMax films I can't recall any other B&W film faster than 400 out of the box.
Interestingly, Anscochrome (32ASA) was also available as a daylight refill but only in packs of 8 films x 20 exposures. I assume these were sold without processing included because there is a notation that push processing to 100ASA was optionally available.
The next directory I have is 1968 and by then only the Ilford films were still available as refills. By 1972 they too had disappeared.
This info relates to Australia but as few, if any, photo products were specifically made for this market I would guess that the refills were generally available worldwide.
OzJohn

Weren't 35mm cassettes/magazines from the 60s and 70s reusable?

N467RX said:

Weren't 35mm cassettes/magazines from the 60s and 70s reusable?

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Ilford ones sure were! They had snap-on ends just like most of the metal ones you can buy for bulk loading these days. I used to alternately buy normal 36 exposure HP5 (as a supply for cassettes) and bulk HP5 and never had to buy any cassettes just for bulk loading. In those days Kodak cassettes needed a bottle opener to get apart; not sure if they earlier had reusable ones.

Duncan

I bought a few of the film refills in NZ around 1974 at the same pharmacy where I bought nearly all of my B & W film processing gear and chemicals including a Patterson System 4 tank which I still use. Things have changed a bit as I can't remember when I last saw film in a pharmacy. Probably over 5 years ago. At least the chemist will sell me syringes which I use for measuring HC-110. I still have a good stock of empty Ilford cassettes from the 1980's but I tend to use the plastic cassettes now when loading from bulk. That reminds me, time for an order to freestyle or B &H for bulk film while the Australian dollar is still riding high.

Orwo in the former GDR also had these kind of refills.

Rather than quoting some points from my Memory such as it is.

When I first baught Kodak Bulk film the Data sheet mentioned the TX410 and PX 410 rolls which were prenotched. I recall asking at the camera store and was tolk that they were not economical for them to stock. I was buying the PX402 50 foot roll.

ADOX was the original film with the twist off end cassettes. They were identical to the ones sold for bulk loading. In fact I recall getting one of the bulk loading one and noticing the shadow where the ADOX logo had been removed from mold for the spool.

The first "EFKE" rolls I got were in a similar plastic cassette.

The first Ilford cassettes I got in the 1960s were aluminium, and had end caps that slid on, the film came with the caps held by paper. They were replaced by the AGFA/Ilford style metal cassettes with the end caps similar to what is now sold by Freestyle (and AP photo) for bulk loading. The difference between the originals and the modern ones is the film opening was a bit offset on teh old ones, and they were of course NOT DX coded.

IN the mid 1960's Kodak was the first to offer "Crimped end caps" with the explanation that the end caps was less likly to come off. The explained the Bulk rolls they sold were intended for cameras taht took long rolls and they did not belive in bulk loading anyway. They offered "Snap Cap 135 Magazines) which had one Crimped cap and one snap off cap. Kodak film made outside of north america continued to have snap off caps until later. I have one Plus-x Cassette I got in the mid seventies that says "Kodak Ltd. London"

I think Kodak was serious about the crimp caps staying on better, I have noticed lately that the Kodak Packaged film I use has caps that are twice as hard as other brands to pry the end cap off.

panchro-press said:

Didn't someone, Ilford maybe, make 72 exposure 35mm cassettes?

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Yes they did but sales & uptake were poor. There was also large over production of special development tanks needed for the film as well. Martin Reed at Silverprint still had a lot left a yearvago

There was also an issue with the film base which could cause damage to the wind/transport mechanism of cameras, essentially it was too strong and won't rip or strip sprocket holes. Ilford have said they will not use PET base again for 35mm as a consequence.

Ian

ath said:

Orwo in the former GDR also had these kind of refills.

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Refills like that were extremely popular in Eastern Bloc countries. The cameras would usually come with 2-3 empty cartridges, and you were expected to just buy the bulk precut film. They did have film sold "with cassette", but it usually cost double and was mainly for tourists or idiots that lost their cartridge.

This method was popular not only with 35mm film, but it was also the preferred way of loading Super 8 film. Every Super 8 camera had a "кассема" reloadable cartridge, and you were expected to load the 50' of 8mm wide film by yourself each time.

I have recently acquired some Adox daylight refills as part of a period camera kit I acquired. I can post some photos of them including their original packaging, if anyone is interested, (assuming they are permissable on this site, that is, because the images of the Adox items were not recorded on film).
Cheers,
Brett

Bill Banks said:

the 36 exposure 'refill'. Does anyone know when these disappeared or whether they were also marketed by other manufacturers?

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Yes, they were. Continental Europe

The only ones I ever remember seeing were of Russian films Tasma or Svema. As commander Checkov on Startrek would say we Russians invented them.

I remember them, but I was always too idle to be bothered with them and used factory cassettes.