Can any mid century folder match a TLR?

[Grim Tuesday]

Right now my lightest and most compact medium format camera is a Rolleicord. It's around a pound and a half and while small by medium format standards, it is not necessarily svelte. Enter stage left, the medium format folder. The promise is a medium format camera that can be fit into a jeans pocket. But for me, to make it worth the hassle of carrying a medium format camera, the image quality must be good. It must surpass not only my Rolleicord but also my autofocus Nikon 35mm setup (in other words, the best 35mm has to offer).

So are there any cameras out there that can meet my requirements? It should be lighter than 850 grams, fit into a pocket and match or surpass the image quality of a Rolleicord. Bonus points if it has a rangefinder. Is it possible?

 

[KN4SMF]

I can't tell you how happy I am with my Moskva 4.

 

[Oren Grad]

Fuji GS645, the folding model with the 75mm lens, though it won't fit into a jeans pocket. Not the GS645S or GS645W, just the plain GS645. The others have wider lenses but rigid bodies, though if you don't mind scale focus, 28mm-equivalent focal length and f/5.6 maximum aperture, the GS645W is actually pretty compact even without folding. If you look for a GS645, take care to find one with a good bellows - the original Fuji bellows was notoriously fragile but many of the cameras have had the bellows replaced over the years.

No, not any of the classic folders, not if you demand optical quality that meets modern standards.

EDIT: I basically agree with Dante Stella on this:

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/folders.html

 

[moto-uno]

If you get a good one the Iskra has a great lens and my Welta Weltur has a surprisingly great uncoated Tessar lens !

 

[moto-uno]

 

[moto-uno]

Someday I'll figure out how to post a remark with the photos .
The first is with the Welta Weltur and Provia 100F
The second is with the Iskra and Provia 100F
Not too shabby . Peter

 

[MattKing]

Someday I'll figure out how to post a remark with the photos .

Type the comments first.
Put a couple of returns in to add some space.
Then add the photos.

 

[KN4SMF]

Breaks my heart to see a fine truck like that all chopped up and tattooed. If it was mine, I'd have it looking like it was fresh off the dealers' lot.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Once I got a few issues sorted out on my Zeiss Nettar 515/16 (6x6 format), it is pretty decent. It doesn't match my Rollei 3.5F, though.

Issues I had were a reversed lens element and then a pressure plate not exerting enough pressure. I also realized the lens' sweet spot was not f/5.6 or 8, but rather 11 or 16. That, and holding it steady - it's too light!



The Nettar is second to the Ikontas though.

Breaks my heart to see a fine truck like that all chopped up and tattooed. ...

Yeah - problem is that seemingly everyone feels the need to do it. Hard to find one unmolested - just like with V8 Ford coupes of the 1930's. Good thing this doesn't happen with cameras.

 

[reddesert]

I have a Mamiya Six, the old folding kind, not the large 1990s system rangefinder. It has in body focusing by moving the film plane, which is a cool solution to the problems of both RF coupling and lens standard rigidity. And automatic frame counting, yay. But it's an over 60 year old camera with a bellows, a primitive non standard flash sync, and no strap lugs on the body (sigh). And finally, you aren't going to be putting it in a jeans pocket unless you wear really baggy jeans. A suit jacket or windbreaker pocket, maybe. I like folders, but the TLR is a more solid framework for holding lens and film and has a more luxurious viewfinder by nature. The thing to remember is that all of these cameras, TLRs included, are vintage now and how happy you are with one will depend on how clear the lens is, fog or dirt in the viewfinder, reflex mirror, or groundglass, and how willing you are to roll with the specific limitations of any given 60 year old mechanical design. The last is perhaps the most important.

 

[John51]

Loaded with film, my Fujica Super 6 weighs in at 727g. As said above, it won't fit into a jeans pocket unless they're baggy jeans. Even then, it would be a bit awkward.

I find it easy to wear with case and a neck strap. A common fault with folder field cases that the top part can break off, as it has with mine. Being a folder, that's an advantage to me. No undoing the case to use and when folded, the lens is safe.

imo, for handheld shots, holding a camera to your chest is more stable than holding it to your head.

 

[guangong]

Probably just as heavy as your Rollei and wouldn’t fit in you jeans’ pocket, but I often use a Zeiss Super Ikonta B. I also have Rollei 2.8 F. Super Ikonta lens delivers. Sometimes a folder is more convenient to carry. There is a trade off. Not as fast in use as TLR. There is no perfect camera. As for carrying a camera in a tight jeans pocket, may I suggest a Minox subminiature.

 

[neilt3]

I'm happy with what I get from my Moskva 5 , looks good to me .
Normally shoot at 6x9 but I also have the frame to reduce it to 6x6 .
You move a lever to alter the viewfinder to switch from 6x9 to 6x6 , better than using a clip on viewfinder .

I also use Yashica , Minolta , Mamiya , Rollei and Lubitol TLR's plus others .
The better TLR's are all on par with the Moskva .

 

[Dan Daniel]

Zeiss Super Ikonta III or IV with the Tessar is a nice camera. I had a IV and regret selling it. Integrated rangefinder. The only issue is some softness in the corners and I didn't have the camera long enough to sort out if this was a lens problem, folder/film flatness problem, or my scanner. Solid, 'compact' but not pocket sized, lighter than the Rolleicord. Slower to use.

 

[bunip]

I have and use regularly many folders from around 1950 (https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/how-many-cameras-do-you-own.87241/page-12#post-2024199) and can say that there isn't any queen: it is so big the difference from sample to sample in the same model that can exceed the difference between models and brands, so you have to look for a good one (often out of 5-10 samples) and make it service, if you want a good one (better than average). I did not observed much difference between ikontas, isolettes or super isolette, bessas or any other folding camera with a good 4 elements lens. When I compare image quality printing BW negatives coming from any folder or my Rolleiflexes (Planar and Xenotar), the Mamiya 6, the mamiya press or the Hasselblad, it is clear there is a large gap between the two groups. If you look for a quality folder you should look for the modern ones like the Fuji GF 670

 

[Hatchetman]

I don't think you can beat the Rolleicord for its weight and image quality combination. My Super Ikonta is heavier and image quality is only as good around f8.

 

[Bill Burk]

Check the bellows for pinholes. Every time you load. It would also be good to vacuum out the insides before each trip.

There’s a lot of dust that gets into a folder when you put it in your pockets.

Part of the reason a Rollei or Hasselblad gives such great images is that they are light tight and tend to stay clean.

 

[mug]

No pre 1970 century folder can match a (Rollei) TLR in my opinion.
I agree forum lid 'Grad' try a Fuji if compactness is needed.
If just easy use, joy, easy to take with you, etc just stay with a TLR.

 

[bunip]

No pre 1970 century folder can match a (Rollei) TLR in my opinion.
I agree forum lid 'Grad' try a Fuji if compactness is needed.
If just easy use, joy, easy to take with you, etc just stay with a TLR.

+1
i think it's a matter of lens design (5-6 elements better than 4) and structure (old folders often not as solid).

 

[bunip]

If you can accept this gap my suggestion would go for an Agfa Super Isolette (bigger) or an Agfa Isolette (smaller) with the Solinar 75 3,5 lens.

 

[JPD]

My East German Ercona II 6x9 with Tessar and Voigtländer RF-Bessa 6x9 with Heliar are excellent, but when you crop the negatives to 6x6 the Rolleicord still wins.

An old folder might need lots of adjustments before it performs at its best. The rangefinder, the focus, the front standard must be perfectly parallel to the film plane, and most folders have front element focusing which is inferior to the unit focusing of the Rolleicord's. And when you get everything right you may still be disappointed when you compare the results to the Rollei's. Plus that you need a sun shade (and maybe filters), and you'd need to remove them before you close the camera.

It's probably not worth the hassle. The Rolleicord is lightweight and easy to use. If you have a good strap it's easy to carry around your neck, ready to use for many hours a day. The sun shade and filter can be kept on the camera (unless you have the camera in its case, then you'll have to remove the sun shade).

 

[Alan9940]

I've been very pleased with my Zeiss Super Ikonta III. I never directly compared the image quality to my Rolleicord Vb back when I had it, but my sense is that it's, at least, equal to the Rollei. Weight is probably about the same, though the Zeiss would fit into a large(ish) pocket. One thing I really like about the Zeiss vs other folders I've owned (Agfa Isolette III, for example) is that it has a couple rangefinder. All that said, you will find just about any folder to be slower to work with compared to the Rolleicord.

 

[choiliefan]

I've had very good luck with a pre-war Super Ikonta A.
Great image quality with color slide as well as B&W film and the rangefinder is accurate enough.
Love my Rolleicord Vb too!

 

[MattKing]

I have a nice 6x6 Baby Bessa that gives me good results.
It is scale focusing, and the system used to keep track of exposures requires mental discipline to use properly, but it performs well.
It is also perfect for left handed, left eye dominant me.
This MSA entry was taken with it:

 

[BradS]

Hmmm...what about the Voigtlander Bessa II with the 105mm Heliar?
They're a bit expensive but if can find a good one, well worth tit.