Cameras with full information viewfinder

broncc · Jun 22, 2015

I got my first 35mm SLR a few weeks ago, an Olympus OM10 with Zuiko's 50mm 1.8 and a manual adaptor, and I'm loving it. I'm in my early 20s and I don't have much experience shooting film so I'm finding this very enjoyable. However, it's very annoying that I can't see the set shutter speed and the aperture in the viewfinder. I know the Pentax KX and the Minolta X-700 have this information in their viewfinders but I was wondering if there are any other budget bodies that have these features, especially ones available in Europe (even the Pentax is pretty rare here).

Dali · Jun 22, 2015

Nikon FE?

Cycler · Jun 22, 2015

You're not comparing like with like! Olympus OM 10 was a budget model for people new to photography. Whereas the Minolta X-700 was, for a time, top of the model range. My Pro brother used an X-500 for archaeological work. I got stuck with X-700's as '500's' became like hens teeth! Not that it mattered much as they worked much the same if you never entered 'P' for the X-700's Program mode. Much of the time I operated as his assistant. Thus on a coach trip to Hadrian's Wall I had to set up a demo at the Chesters Bridge abutment. Rather ruined when a numpty purloined my scale and went off shouting, "Look what I've found!"

broncc · Jun 22, 2015

I agree that the X700, the KX, and the FE are pro models and that's reflected in their current prices. That's why I'm wondering if there is a budget model that has the aperture and shutter speed in the viewfinder. Maybe I'll look into purchasing on of these more advanced bodies in the future.

cuthbert · Jun 22, 2015

There are many full info finder cameras, the Nikon F2A and AS, the Canon F-1N, in the Pentax area KX, K2DMD, MX, LX of course, the K mounted Ricoh XR-2 and XR-7 as well, all the Praktica B series, Canon A-1 and T90 have digital reading, I don't know if it's the same thin for you, others escape m mind at the moment.

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 22, 2015

Regarding you OM system, I'm afraid that even the top of the range OM3-Ti and OM-4Ti don't have the aperture info in the viewfinder.
You'll get used to it.

A tip for you:
There's a trick to make you OM10 to be just like the OM-1: just turn it off, leave the batteries in for the shutter and put the mode leaver in Manual. Then you use the shutter ring and the aperture to decide the best exposure. Use the "Sunny 16" rule and practice a lot.
Soon you'll find out what exposure to set in what conditions.
BTW, if you set the mode leaver to AUTO, you'll still have full aperture priority metering, but no indications on the viewfinder with the camera mode on OFF.

blockend · Jun 22, 2015

By the AF era most cameras had full LCD viewfinder readouts.

Xmas · Jun 22, 2015

cuthbert said:
There are many full info finder cameras, the Nikon F2A and AS, the Canon F-1N, in the Pentax area KX, K2DMD, MX, LX of course, the K mounted Ricoh XR-2 and XR-7 as well, all the Praktica B series, Canon A-1 and T90 have digital reading, I don't know if it's the same thin for you, others escape m mind at the moment.

The Nikon FM(2)(2n)(3) series (and F3?), FM,...

If you started with a box Brownie all unnecessary.

The OTF auto metering cameras can't have an exact shutter speed in finder cause they don't know for sure when they will fire the shutter close relay, some will have an offset with some lenses.

Xmas · Jun 22, 2015

broncc said:
I got my first 35mm SLR a few weeks ago, an Olympus OM10 with Zuiko's 50mm 1.8 and a manual adaptor, and I'm loving it. I'm in my early 20s and I don't have much experience shooting film so I'm finding this very enjoyable. However, it's very annoying that I can't see the set shutter speed and the aperture in the viewfinder. I know the Pentax KX and the Minolta X-700 have this information in their viewfinders but I was wondering if there are any other budget bodies that have these features, especially ones available in Europe (even the Pentax is pretty rare here).

Lots of people buy on eBay by post.
An OM1n is all mechanical and long term maintainable.
The on camera meters are difficult in difficult lighting and you need to anticipate this cause you can't chimp and correct any more.
I carry a separate meter and leave the battery out this ok even for slide film.

blockend · Jun 22, 2015

Xmas said:
I carry a separate meter and leave the battery out this ok even for slide film.

Or use the free light meter apps for a smart phone.

Xmas · Jun 22, 2015

blockend said:
Or use the free light meter apps for a smart phone.

Do you get an incident attachment to down load as well?

cuthbert · Jun 22, 2015

Xmas said:
Do you get an incident attachment to down load as well?

Can we add an iphone with the film app as well? So we can use the phone as camera and attach the lens, load the cassette on a side and get all the film photography we want.

blockend · Jun 22, 2015

Xmas said:
Do you get an incident attachment to down load as well?

I believe there's a proper incident attachment available. Last autumn using a Nikkormat with a dead meter, I shot five rolls of chrome, confirming my expectations of exposure with an app at the beginning of a session. Daylight is remarkably consistent once a reading has been made, and changes can be accommodated with a click this way or that. Obviously there are exceptions, but if you can shoot like that with slide film, negative is no problem.

This comes with four decades of experience mind you, beginners tend to prefer confirmation of their metering choices, which is what the OP is looking for presumably.

Paul Verizzo · Jun 22, 2015

cuthbert said:
There are many full info finder cameras, the Nikon F2A and AS, the Canon F-1N, in the Pentax area KX, K2DMD, MX, LX of course, the K mounted Ricoh XR-2 and XR-7 as well, all the Praktica B series, Canon A-1 and T90 have digital reading, I don't know if it's the same thin for you, others escape m mind at the moment.

Ricoh XR-P! I have a bunch of them. So cheap, so good. The shutter speed shows in the viewfinder in steps, not a display number. Half stop steps. The aperture is just a tiny window look down to the lens setting.

Xmas · Jun 22, 2015

blockend said:
I believe there's a proper incident attachment available. Last autumn using a Nikkormat with a dead meter, I shot five rolls of chrome, confirming my expectations of exposure with an app at the beginning of a session. Daylight is remarkably consistent once a reading has been made, and changes can be accommodated with a click this way or that. Obviously there are exceptions, but if you can shoot like that with slide film, negative is no problem.

This comes with four decades of experience mind you, beginners tend to prefer confirmation of their metering choices, which is what the OP is looking for presumably.

I went from a 127 Brownie at 10 and verichrome to a Periflex at 15 and Kodachrome with the table that came in the kodachrome box.
People coming from Digital cameras may not allow for necessity.

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/accessory_reviews/lumu-iphone-lightmeter-review-39120
A Weston II is typically 20-40 GBP

trythis · Jun 22, 2015

Budget: Nikon n70 / f70 (same model) will work with manual focus lenses and auto as well. 20+ available on ebay cheap right now. If this camera had a conventional interface it would be more desirable. Once you get used to it, it really is the cheapest most versatile Nikon body.

You could also consider the N2020 (f501) but I do not know if the viewfinder info though, but it is cheap and uses aa or aaa batteries

Typos made on a tiny phone...

gone · Jun 22, 2015

Leica R3, R4, R4s, R5, Nikkormat FT, Nikkormat FTn, N6006, N8008s, N90 F4, F100...

The last 5 Nikon bodies are AF, but it doesn't matter if you have the right lenses they can me used manually. All of these Nikon bodies can be used in stop down metering mode w/ Leica R lenses and an adapter, but you lose the aperture readout in the viewfinder. I find that not as bothersome as not knowing the shutter speed however.

I had posted on an earlier thread about the R2 cameras that I had owned, and that was a senior moment. There are no R2 cameras (M2, but no R2). I meant the R4 and R4s models.

Hilo · Jun 22, 2015

I just looked at the manual and I do see the shutter speeds in automatic. Just teach yourself that turning the aperture ring one way opens the lens and the other way closes the lens. I think the OM10 is best for using in automatic and you may appreciate the little information in the finder, so you can concentrate on what it really important - what you are taking the picture off.

I have the OM1 and the OM4Ti and find them both great. And I find any camera with a lot of information in the finder distracting from what photography is about.

Xmas · Jun 22, 2015

Hilo said:
I just looked at the manual and I do see the shutter speeds in automatic. Just teach yourself that turning the aperture ring one way opens the lens and the other way closes the lens. I think the OM10 is best for using in automatic and you may appreciate the little information in the finder, so you can concentrate on what it really important - what you are taking the picture off.

I have the OM1 and the OM4Ti and find them both great. And I find any camera with a lot of information in the finder distracting from what photography is about.

Too true I use a wide prefocused and instinctive point.

thuggins · Jun 22, 2015

Xmas said:
The on camera meters are difficult in difficult lighting and you need to anticipate this cause you can't chimp and correct any more.
I carry a separate meter and leave the battery out this ok even for slide film.

I have always found my Olympus meters to be extremely accurate, and TTL metering is always better than a separate meter as you know exactly what light is being picked up. As for "difficult lighting", that would appear to be a euphemism for learning to understand normal exposures and evaluating that against a particular scene. Part of the skill of photography is looking at the evenness of the light, the angle of the sun, the ratio of highlight to shadow, etc. All these go in to understanding the meter reading vis-a-vis the image you are trying to create. A hand held meter is not going resolve these challenges for you.

Xmas · Jun 22, 2015

thuggins said:
I have always found my Olympus meters to be extremely accurate, and TTL metering is always better than a separate meter as you know exactly what light is being picked up. As for "difficult lighting", that would appear to be a euphemism for learning to understand normal exposures and evaluating that against a particular scene. Part of the skill of photography is looking at the evenness of the light, the angle of the sun, the ratio of highlight to shadow, etc. All these go in to understanding the meter reading vis-a-vis the image you are trying to create. A hand held meter is not going resolve these challenges for you.

Ok the cine people who use incident domes are wrong? Ditto people who use the zone system?

flavio81 · Jun 22, 2015

momus said:
Nikkormat FT, Nikkormat FTn

Those cameras only show the shutter speed in the viewfinder. They don't show aperture.

To the OP, those are the cameras I recall showing all information. Of course there are more, particularly all the later 80s cameras with auto-everything and LCD panels will probably show the full information in the viewfinder. But for older cameras, the ones I remember:

Nikon F2 (F2AS for example), F3
Canon New F-1, A-1
Nikon FE, FE2, FM, FM2
Yashica FR-1

The Canon New F-1 has additionally the distintion of being able to show simultaneusly:

a) the chosen shutter speed
b) the chosen aperture
c) the suggested aperture.

Similarly, on the Nikon FE (and FE2):

a) the chosen shutter speed
b) the chosen aperture
c) the suggested shutter speed.

flavio81 · Jun 22, 2015

thuggins said:
I have always found my Olympus meters to be extremely accurate, and TTL metering is always better than a separate meter as you know exactly what light is being picked up.

I disagree. An incident meter is better (more consistent, and easier to use) than a reflected meter. The incident meter "knows" how much light is lighting the subject. The reflected meter is easily fooled by the subject itself. Of course, you need to use your judgement and compensate accordingly, but with the incident meter the task is far far easier.

Cine photographers and studio photographers all use incident metering, not reflected.

darkosaric · Jun 22, 2015

I got nikon F65 for 5 euros - it has all informations in the viewfinder, and many other advance functions like matrix metering. Together with 28-80 AF nikkor you can buy it for 20-25 euros: all you need.

GRHazelton · Jun 22, 2015

Pentax full info viewfinders.

I can't speak for many cameras other than Pentax, but the LX shows everything, as does the MX. A warning: the LX, while supremely versatile, is not cheap, neither is a CLA (cleaning, lubrication, adjustment) service. Examples may have been heavily used professionally. Depth of field preview, and mirror lockup.

The MX is very small, and basic accessories, such as a winder, are fairly easily found. DOF, but no "official" mirror lockup.

The KX is bigger, no motor or winder, but a fine camera. Not that many of them out there, however. DOF and mirror lockup.

The LX has perhaps the finest TTL meter system ever offered, plus TTL flash. I've taken perfectly exposed pics by moonlight with exposures of 15 or 20 minutes; I've seen shots with exposures of several hours which were excellent. A tripod is recommended, of course! Shutter speeds are electronically controlled but speeds above 1/70 are usable without battery. MX has a straight mechanical shutter, as is the KX.

Both the LX and MX are system cameras, offering full motor drives, bulk film backs, data backs, and interchangeable viewfinder screens. Good luck on the bulk film backs, though!

I have examples of these three fine cameras and find them all fine user machines.

Another Pentax example is the SuperProgram, which with an "A" lens will display aperture as well as shutter in two windows below the viewfinder window. It is much like the ME Super, but on steroids, adding the aperture/shutter display, plus depth of field preview. It also has TTL flash, which is an excellent system. A suitable Pentax flash can be bought for $30 or $40. I've just acquired my example, at a very reasonable price, so I don't have extensive user comments yet. As with the ME without batteries nothing works.

Full disclosure: I am somewhat of a traditionalist, in that I like metal cameras! And the whirr/buzz of mechanical shutters. Thus I haven't spoken to the final generation of Pentax 35mm film cameras, fine machines, but not to my taste.

Have a look at PentaxForums.com for full discussions of all Pentax cameras.

Cameras with full information viewfinder

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