Cameras that are more expensive than a Leica

darkosaric · Oct 22, 2014

Hi all,

I noticed that often here and on many other forums feedback about Leica cameras is that you get same result with much cheaper cameras, and you don't need Leica. And often this feedback is pretty strong (not to use another terms).

But when somebody buys some other expensive camera (often more expensive than a Leica) there are no similar discussions. For example if somebody buys Plaubel machina - nobody speaks that you can get same results with cheap folder like agfa isolette, or when you get Hasselblad - nobody writes why did you get this expensive camera, why not Bronica of Kiev 66 that will give you same result ...

What are your toughs on this ?

Regards,

baachitraka · Oct 22, 2014

I need a Leica preferably one with 28mm/35mm frame-lines and as well as a 28mm or a 35mm lens. I don't know how many years I have to save for it.

Right now, I shoot with Zuikos for their compactness but occasionally I prefer to have more detail on the prints esp., from street photography.

analoguey · Oct 22, 2014

Actually, people do comment on the value or not of the hassie. Check the hassie v mamiya threads (theres one going on and on right now)!
The Makina probably not too expensive compared to similar cameras? (like a mamiya 7?)

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baachitraka · Oct 22, 2014

I saw the latest Rolleiflex(w,n,t) all selling around 5k which is reasonable and in-fact they are not so expensive.

analoguey · Oct 22, 2014

I thought they were more expensive than the d4. Hmm.

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waileong · Oct 22, 2014

darkosaric said:
Hi all,

I noticed that often here and on many other forums feedback about Leica cameras is that you get same result with much cheaper cameras, and you don't need Leica. And often this feedback is pretty strong (not to use another terms).

But when somebody buys some other expensive camera (often more expensive than a Leica) there are no similar discussions. For example if somebody buys Plaubel machina - nobody speaks that you can get same results with cheap folder like agfa isolette, or when you get Hasselblad - nobody writes why did you get this expensive camera, why not Bronica of Kiev 66 that will give you same result ...

What are your toughs on this ?

Regards,

Why? Because Leica is well-understood.

MDR · Oct 22, 2014

Leica Prices are in order of other low volume products People complaining about Leica prices should look at the prices of some of the Alpas as well as at the price of a new 35mm movie camera. The reason for Leicas high Prices is low volume + partly handmade instead of fully automatized production.
Compared to a higher volume product they are more expensive. That's why God or some smart Human invented the 2nd Hand market where one can get lower priced movie cameras and Leicas

Xmas · Oct 22, 2014

baachitraka said:
I need a Leica preferably one with 28mm/35mm frame-lines and as well as a 28mm or a 35mm lens. I don't know how many years I have to save for it.

Right now, I shoot with Zuikos for their compactness but occasionally I prefer to have more detail on the prints esp., from street photography.

Even if you lock up the mirror
Use 100 ISO tabular grain (Acros, Tmax, Delta) in an actuance developer
and a heavy tripod
you won't detect much difference between your lenses and a Leica aspheric at /5.6 and smaller - I do notice some distortion with 35mm /2.8
If you are doing available darkness at /0.95 and /30 with fast film (delta3200) a canon dream or Leica aspheric will give different signatures but are both heavy.
Normally I use a CanonP or Leica M2 with a LTM lens either Cosina Voiglander /2.5 35mm or Canon /2 35mm the Cosina is multi coated and clinical like an aspheric the Canon single coated and indistinguishable from a Leica 35 mm from '60s.
Any of the rangefinder options are expensive.

Here a

CanonP 150-250 GBP (250 is pristine)
CV 150-200 200 pristine
M2 350-600 "
Canon /2 400+ pristine

Fotoguy20d · Oct 22, 2014

As for leica, I think it's a matter of hype and mystique. There are a lot of other rangefinders out there. I'm sure the Canon and Nikon are nice but they're common brands. I can say first hand though that you can't compare one of the copies, especially the Russian ones, to a III series Leica, or, nice as they are, a Bessa to an M. They just don't sound or feel the same. Having bought the leica M, I "settled" for a Bronica SQ-A- works fine, takes great pictures, and never having used a Hassy I don't know what I'm missing.

Of course, you can make the same arguments and questions about many things-my Honda gets me to work just fine but it isn't a BMW.

Dan

baachitraka · Oct 22, 2014

My personal copies of Zuiko 28mm f/3.5 and zuiko 35mm f/2.8 are distortion free(???) but then I shoot at or above f/5.6.

28mm f/3.5 is an awesome performer in the wide-angle bunch I got.

The thing I noticed on prints of size 19x24cm(pape size: 20x25cm) from street scenes in Bremen that Zuiko 35mm f/2.8 does not resolve some detail on the name board of the shops which let me wonder whether leica lens can do some magic to see those letters of the name board on prints.

* Name board on that instance is not that big. I know it depends on other factors like enlarger lens resolution, lens flare(no lens hood on that day) and so on...

gone · Oct 22, 2014

Well, it's really about the lenses rather than the camera body, if we're talking about picture quality. And since you can mount the Leica lenses on lots of other bodies, w/ or w/o an adapter, there you go.

elekm · Oct 22, 2014

Price is relative and our willingness to pay for what we consider to be "fair value."

For example, some people wouldn't spend $600 on a film camera, but they have no problem paying that same amount for a smartphone or a new lens.

$1,500 for a Leica? No way. Not worth it. How many times have we heard that? Canon had no problem selling its 1DS body way back when for four times that amount. As I recall, people were paying hundreds of dollars - just to get in to a queue to buy the camera.

A Leica will outlive all of us. That is true for most pre-1980 cameras - Japanese and German. I've owned a sizable number of cameras that I have no doubt outlived their owners. They likely will outlive me.

Xmas · Oct 22, 2014

baachitraka said:
My personal copies of Zuiko 28mm f/3.5 and zuiko 35mm f/2.8 are distortion free(???) but then I shoot at or above f/5.6.

28mm f/3.5 is an awesome performer in the wide-angle bunch I got.

The thing I noticed on prints of size 19x24cm(pape size: 20x25cm) from street scenes in Bremen that Zuiko 35mm f/2.8 does not resolve some detail on the name board of the shops which let me wonder whether leica lens can do some magic to see those letters of the name board on prints.

* Name board on that instance is not that big. I know it depends on other factors like enlarger lens resolution, lens flare(no lens hood on that day) and so on...

I can detect distortion...

You need to use

100ISO tabular grain film
heavy tripod
f/5.6 or f/8

And compare a (preferably late) 5cm /1.8 or macro 5cm with the wides

http://olympus.dementix.org/Hardware/

baachitraka · Oct 22, 2014

Film was Orwo UN54 developed in DK-76b(1+1). I was just wondering about those minute details and for the rest I do not have worry much.

I do not get the comparison part, do you meant to compare number of lens elements?

darkosaric · Oct 22, 2014

elekm said:
$1,500 for a Leica? No way. Not worth it. How many times have we heard that?

Hundreds and hundreds of times... but only couple of times (if any) for other more expensive film cameras than used Leicas.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Oct 22, 2014

Leica is Berlin Philarmony with Furtwangler and Nikon is Boston Pops orchestra.

Play these two orchestras in a row and ask which is which to Nikon users , Nikon user will say he she prefers Madonna and hate classical music.

gzinsel · Oct 22, 2014

to the OP, I think some photags . . . Just some,,,, resent others who have larger pockets! while others resent leica owners because of their ( non leica owner) beleif in -or "the appeared" common myth- that if I buy the best, I AM THE BEST. some photags feel that the only people who buy leica's are doctors and lawyers AND they don't really know. all of the above , of course, is false. all of which I do not agree with. really what it comes down to is people are just jealous and/or envious. and of course, when ever possible like to treat "those" people ( leica owners)like garbage on the internet. I have noticed that too.

analoguey · Oct 22, 2014

Leica undersells a Ferrari each year -that is mindboggling!! Leica apparently sold just over a thousand last year or so(I think someone here mentioned that) - Ferrari limits itself to <2000 to keep a waiting line, reportedly.

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Mustafa Umut Sarac · Oct 22, 2014

The problem with european society and us society , these countries educates the idiots and high iq people at the same level. They all find good jobs , earn 100 times than Turkish worker and they be part of a community. They have good education , lots of hobbies , lots of toys , lots of money - look at these nikon owners , they have 50 nikons - etc.

But the trick , big majority of these people have low iq , you cant change this whether you have 45000 atomic weapons or not.

They have no brain power to understand art , artists , collectors and logic behind that.

And they bash Leica , classical music , jazz music , rembrandt , van gogh , history... % 50 of the us public believes there are too much people living on earth and someone might erase them.

We are dealing with extremelly dangerous people , Leica is the least important

removed account4 · Oct 22, 2014

i think it is because the further you go up the format ladder ... its more of a lifestyle choice than a camera

snapguy · Oct 22, 2014

!9

This entry is extremely racist and offensive. The Turks need to step up to the plate and admit the mass murder of millions of Armenians. At least Germany admits the terrible sins of Hitler et al.

Dinesh · Oct 22, 2014

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
The problem with european society and us society , these countries educates the idiots and high iq people at the same level. They all find good jobs , earn 100 times than Turkish worker and they be part of a community. They have good education , lots of hobbies , lots of toys , lots of money - look at these nikon owners , they have 50 nikons - etc.

But the trick , big majority of these people have low iq , you cant change this whether you have 45000 atomic weapons or not.

They have no brain power to understand art , artists , collectors and logic behind that.

And they bash Leica , classical music , jazz music , rembrandt , van gogh , history... % 50 of the us public believes there are too much people living on earth and someone might erase them.

We are dealing with extremelly dangerous people , Leica is the least important

And I want a bike and a monkey and a friend for the monkey.

removed account4 · Oct 22, 2014

snapguy said:
This entry is extremely racist and offensive. The Turks need to step up to the plate and admit the mass murder of millions of Armenians. At least Germany admits the terrible sins of Hitler et al.

ain't ever gonna happen

i mean look what is going on in that region of the world at the moment ...
( ethnic cleansing, genocide, atrocities &c )

history repeats itself often, unfortunately and in some regions the world has amnesia ...

if you are lucky ... maybe you will get offensive hateful PMs !

benjiboy · Oct 22, 2014

I have probably been able to afford a new Leica for the last 20 years but have never had any desire for one, the cameras I already own are better cameras than I'm a photographer, and I learned to distinguish the difference between want and need in the days that I had very little, and I don't subscribe to the use of expensive cameras as jewellery.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 22, 2014

I think itmay have to do withe attitude that comes with owning a Leica.some owners treat the red dot as an entry ticket to an elite cluband that rubs others the wrong way.the other cameras are more for prosumersnot for elitists.

Cameras that are more expensive than a Leica

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